fuel cell questions...

[Shawn]

I have experienced debris in my Weber carb jets. I have attacked this problem with more agressive fuel filtration elements. (thanks TT)

After researching my cars service records, I discovered that it has never had it's tank flushed, cleaned and properly treated. I am considering an after market fuel cell replacement rather than a teatment to the stock tank.

A new fuel fire safe cell may eliminate this problem. However, I lose my spare wheel spot. I am not going for a refuel hole in the middle of my perfect hood...nor am I after an excuse to install cool parts (well, maybe) I have never experienced the tank flushing, acid bath and treatment that could happen.

So, I am asking the group. Is the treatment to my original cell the way to go...and if it is, who is best at that. Or, should I install a hot rod aluminum box with a bladder. What else have I missed regarding this delema.

Thanks guys, Dirty fuel Shawn.

[nick-moss]

I am building a post historic (68 - 74) rally 911 at the moment. The owner wanted a 100 litre FIA foam filled tank bit I did a bit of research and found that the new FIA regs allow a standard tank as long as it is foam filled. We found a very scruufy early tank and cut of the area around the spare wheel depession. The steel is surprisingly thick, maybe 1.5 mm, and the inside of the tank was full of loose rust. We are getting it sandblasted, having a new part added to increase the capacity and having it foam filled. If your tank has sat empty for any period of time it may well have the rust that we encountered.

[ErVikingo]

Hey Dirty Fuel,

If you dont want dirtier fuel DO NOT GET A FUEL CELL. This is from personal experience. My fuel cell's bladder disintegrated by interaction with gasoline.

When we contacted the manufacturer who told us that you must empty the fuel cell between race meets. They do not want us to keep gas in the cell to prevent dehydration.

Extrapolating from that, you don't want it for street use. The following press release talsk about oxigenated fuels but when I contacted them, they said an gasoline causes degradation.

Aircraft Rubber Manufacturing, Inc. / Fuel Safe Systems
250 SE Timber Avenue, Redmond Oregon 97756
Tel: (541) 923-6005 Order Desk: (800) 433-6524 Fax: (541) 923-6015
Internet: www.aircraftrubber.com & www.fuelsafe.com

Jerry Kunzman

Urgent Fire Safety Message

From: Fuel Safe

Date: 7/21/04

Re: Race Fuel Effects on all Fuel System Components

Dear Competitors:

It has come to Fuel Safe's attention that certain new race fuels may have an exaggerated degenerative effect on most fuel system rubber parts. The situation reportedly was initiated by the introduction of ethanol oxygenates, but Fuel Safe is not convinced these octane enhancers are the cause.



We urge you, as competitors, to examine your fuel hoses, rubber seals, flapper valves and, above all, fuel cell bladders for any signs of swell, blistering or fabric/rubber delamination?

These ill-effects seem to have manifested themselves among the entire range of rubber products and manufacturers. Hence, we highly recommend that all race teams closely examine their \"elastomeric\" fuel system components in the interest of fire safety.

Fuel Safe has set up an inspection station at its Redmond Oregon Plant offering no-charge evaluations of its customers' fuel cells, foam baffling, seals and valves. Your Fuel Safe contact is Harold Lawrence at 800-433-6524 and his extension is 240.

While there is no known \"fix\" for rubber deterioration, Mr. Lawrence will promptly assess and advise the options on a case-by-case basis.

Best regards from Fuel Safe.


important notice to Fuel Safe customers and distributors

Unleaded Race Fuel With Ethanol

Many States in the USA have recently banned the use of the octane enhancer \"MTBE\" in unleaded gasoline formulations. Major oil companies are now replacing the MTBE \"oxygenate\" with an alternative anti-knock additive known as \"ethanol\" or \"ethyl alcohol\". Most of these new gasoline blends end up as 85 to 90% unleaded gasoline and 10 to 15% ethyl alcohol (ethanol). Europe and Asia are expected to follow suit and introduce their own ethanol oxygenated gasoline formulations.

Typically fuel-system components such as hoses, pump diaphragms, seals, filters and fuel cell bladders are specifically designed for either gasoline or alcohol, but not both. Some of these components may suffer exaggerated degenerative effects from higher alcohol concentrations.

Also significant is the fact that gasoline and alcohol do not mix well, and with exposure to low temperatures, water, and gravity, they may experience \"phase-separation\". The heavier alcohol may sink to the bottom of a bladder, while the lighter gasoline portion may float to the top. This could effectively increase alcohol concentrations.

It is Fuel Safe's opinion that elevated alcohol concentrations could damage gasoline-type fuel bladders. As of this writing, Fuel Safe knows of no accidents or leaks caused by damage from ethyl alcohol, but the company is taking a pro-active stance, and you can help:

1.) Fuel Safe suggests that racers drain the fuel bladder after each
race or practice.

2.) Fuel Safe encourages teams or individuals to frequently inspect
all of your fuel system components, including the bladder's interior, for any sign of fraying, wrinkling or blistering.

Fuel Safe also has a toll-free contact, Mr. Harold Lawrence, 800-433-6524 ext. 240 whom can receive, inspect, and evaluate any competitor's Fuel Safe fuel bladder at no charge.


Please spread the word about ethanol and fuel system components to your fellow racers. Also, please report any negative inspection findings to the component manufacturer and also to the fuel supplier.

Aircraft Rubber Manufacturing, Inc. / Fuel Safe Systems
250 SE Timber Avenue, Redmond Oregon 97756
Tel: (541) 923-6005 Order Desk: (800) 433-6524 Fax: (541) 923-6015
Internet: www.aircraftrubber.com & www.fuelsafe.com

Fuel Safe Systems and ARM Rotomolding are Divisions of Aircraft Rubber Manufacturing, Inc.

[Eric911S]

Hello: Take your tank out and take it to a rad shop so they can clean it out for you. If you still get rust in your carbs then buy a new gas tank. They make a replacement tank for about $350. If that doesn't suit you then use a sportsmen cell from ATL. You can use an angle fitting on the fuel cell to join up to the factory filler. As a side note you will have to change the foam in the tank every 5 years or so. Thanks Eric

[Shawn]

for your options, advice and warnings. Valuable info here.

I really appreciate that you have taken time to relay your experiences regarding my question.

I will attempt to have the original tank flushed and treated. If that does not work then....well, I will cross that bridge then. I mostly run around with only five gals or less of 101 octane ($5 per gal from Mobile) and fuel stabilizer when the 115 degree summers begin. So there is a nasty combination of stuff getting sloshed around in that tank this time of the year. Then I fill up with 91 Octane and drive to the beach and back. I swear to God, I made it from Ventura Ca to PHX AZ on one tank of fuel @ 80 mph!

Thanks guys, Shawn.

[gruen911]

I swear to God, I made it from Ventura Ca to PHX AZ on one tank of fuel @ 80 mph!

Maybe that's why you keep having problems with debris in your carb's!!!!
Amazing gas mileage. What was the exact distance?

[Shawn]

Gruen911...places my run from the German Auto Fest in Ventura CA to Phoenix AZ at 450 miles. With a 16.4 US Gallon tank I was experiencing 27.27 miles per gallon. It has been a while since I looked but, I think that my RPM's are about 4500 at 80 mph. My car has a 4 speed trans and since I added the MSD system...my tach needle is a little bouncy.

Barbara was with me...she was sleeping most of the way with the windows down...I hate that she can do that. We left Ventura just after the train took out the European Collectibles trailerload of 356 cars.

As I do not have AC, I perform the high desert runs at night. I also lock my hand throttle (cruise control) on the flats.

Tom, that cool tank needs a better home than my road worn T. Or, my P car worn wallet cannot find a home for it here. I thought you needed one of those?

Edit: Notice the early911Sregistry blue tent top right behind my car. And Beck's big car show with the grey top behind that.

Shawn.