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Thread: "Porsche GTU 2.5 Andial Longstroke"

  1. #1

    "Porsche GTU 2.5 Andial Longstroke"

    No affiliation...could be a kick to drive...

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...spagenameZWDVW
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Peter Kane

    '72 911S Targa
    Message Board Co-Moderator - Early 911S Registry #100

  2. #2
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    I see an engine with a 911 attached.......
    Aaron Hatz
    Flat Six, inc.
    www.flat6.com

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  3. #3
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    Aaron, that's why you're better at this than I am - I just see an engine with a tumor attached.
    1973 911E - Viper Green
    1973 911T - Light Ivory, becoming Glacier Blue RS

  4. #4
    Said in my best Arnold voice..."it's not a toooma!"...
    Peter Kane

    '72 911S Targa
    Message Board Co-Moderator - Early 911S Registry #100

  5. #5
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    Judging from the price already it looks like there is some interest in the "gold" bolted to that thing..........at least I hope the new owner will know what they have.
    Aaron Hatz
    Flat Six, inc.
    www.flat6.com

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  6. #6
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    That car ran in New England and various configurations for many years. Prior to its current configuration, the car indeed did have an original longstroke 2.5 liter that had sat for many years. Customer had a local shop redo the engine with new Mahles - still in the 2.5 set up. After a year, the engine was rebuilt again, but this time to 2.8 liter specs using new Mahle P/c's. The 12 plug dizzy is original, as is the amber shrouding and high butterfly. Additional updates as I remember in 2000/2001 season - included new recaro seat, new brakes, fabcar shifter assembly and transmission work.

    If anyone has a serious interest in car, there is a VERY sad story associated with it - and chapters more than the ebay ad gets into. I am not one for GOLD, but the car is rooted in Andials history and at one time in a different configuration was a player. I don't believe the case was changed - although lots of machining to get 2.8 liter to work. Circle Perfromance in Brockton Mass did the last round of case work.

    Good luck and careful with your check book!

  7. #7
    The Andial story would be of interest, if only to me.
    Peter Kane

    '72 911S Targa
    Message Board Co-Moderator - Early 911S Registry #100

  8. #8

    2.5 Werks Motor?

    I've been poring over the photo of this Andial 2.5 engine and then it hit me: look over that engine with me for a minute and in particular check out the trumpets on the high butterfly:
    1. those metal trumpets are very unusual - only some 2.5 and a very few early 2.8 RSR (some say less than ten sets) set ups had metal trumpets. The 2.5 set ups are really not seen that often - just not that many 2.5 units were built as compared to the garden variety big bore high butterflys with the plastic trumpets used on most 2.8 RSRs, all 3.0 IROC RSRs and the early non-slide throttle RSR 3.0s. Remember, most STs ran with Weber 46s on tall 906 style magnesium manifolds and not so many with high butterfly mfi. In fact, not that many STs were even finished as pure circuit racers - more were finished as rally cars with Sports Kit 911S motors, not track motors. This set up is suited to the Ring, not the Monte, and would not have been too easy to get over the counter - probably ones like this were made available to favored werks customers only. The ST ran in the days before Porsche became interested in even racing the 911 and focused instead on campaigning the "plastic" cars. The factory only ran the 911 in rallies until 1972 and even then only the major events. But the good stuff for 911s was available and could find its way to the back door factory racing teams: Kremer, Sonauto, Brumos, Ginther etc. if not the privateers. Metal trumpets are longhood race bits, I don't think there were any more of these after early in the '73 season..
    2. and now look really closely, those are the small diameter metal trumpets - for the smaller 41mm butterflys of an ST engine to match the 41mm intake port diameters of an ST twin plug head. They are not the larger diameter trumpets for the 43mm RSR butterflys (look at the set with the widebody metal trumpets - a really nice set by the way - shown on page 83 in Bruce Anderson's Porsche 911 Performance Handbook) used to match up with the the mega 43mm intake ports on an RSR head. You can refer to page 89 of the same book to get a good look at the big bore plastic trumpets on a 3.0 IROC RSR power unit. I think this small trumpet set up dates from late '71 or '72.
    3. yes, that is a factory "red top" Bosch injection pump - not a cute little smog unit that someone changed over to look cool - but a real factory side inlet race pump. This is the unit that you can click 'til you get the color on the pipes you like! Anybody know the correct identification code for the Bosch tags on a 2.5 ST pump?
    4. sure looks like a gennie factory amber shroud - but hey, where's the matching amber "tin"?
    5. and, it has a lightweight ST/RSR engine mount bar - six holes each side.
    6. well, the Bosch 12 plug distributor is the later RSR 3.0 type and not correct for a 2.5 - check out the 8 pin CDI boxes on the other side of the firewall - and not introduced until the STs were all converted to RSRs or parked. A 2.5 ST would originally have had a 12 plug Marelli distributor and a pair of three pin CDI boxes. But this Bosch unit would have been a legit factory update/upgrade for an active race unit.
    7. supposed to be 906 center oiler cams; actually pretty docile for what is now a 2808 (92.0x70.4); wonder if the 2.8 upgrade included the high lift RSR "sprint" cams in the four bearing cam towers?
    8. nice! eleven bladed 226mm small diameter race department fan with 1.3:1 drive as used on all 906 through 956/962C werks motors.
    The original Andial dyno sheet, when this unit was in 2.5 configuration (86.7x70.4), shows 279 ps at 6861 rpm (computed with a 1.04 correction factor). Pretty stout for an early mag case!
    Could it have been an original 2.5 Werks motor? Sure looks like one (OK, the Clewett serpentine fan drive set up is an exception - but a popular and useful race bit for the sustained Rs in GTU - and yes, the boy racer red plug leads gotta go - and high butterfly should have metal fuel lines running from the pump to the injectors, not the flexible high pressure lines that you see on there - they belong on a set of slide throttles).
    What do the engine archaeologists on this site think? Steve, Aaron?
    Early 911S Registry
    Looking for engine 960 168
    Looking for gear box 103 165

  9. #9
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    Like I said.......I see an engine with a 911 attached.....

    It sure looks like a pretty original Le Mans spec '72 ST engine to me.....and yeah I was drooling over the 8 pin boxes in the back seat too.

    The reserve was $40K.........
    Aaron Hatz
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    www.flat6.com

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  10. #10

    2.5 Werks Motor

    I did a little more research on this engine. This engine was used and retained by the competition department until 1982. It was sourced by Andial for a particular customer running GTU and the engine was released from the factory by Herr Hegel as a complete, used Porsche Race Motor. Upon obtaining the engine from Porsche, it was subsequently disassembled by Andial to check specs, re-balance, assemble and dyno tune. It was shipped airfreight by Andial to their customer.

    Here is what Andial bought from Herr Hegel at the factory race department at Porsche, and I quote:

    "One 2.5 Litre Porsche Race Motor, complete including following component parts:
    (i) Long Stroke 3 Litre RSR Crank
    (ii) Titanium Rods
    (iii) 86.7 mm Pistons
    (iv) Twin Plugs for each of 6 cylinders
    (v) Breakerless Distributor
    (vi) Aluminum sprockets
    (vii) Oil Pump w/908 gears
    (viii) Fuel injection pump
    (ix) Mechanical Injection System with High Rise Butterflies
    (x) Factory Cams specially ground for this Motor by Porsche factory
    (xi) 3 litre Exhaust System
    (xii) Motor parts fully balanced"

    So, this is an original race motor, early case, early 2.5 high butterfly set up, etc - updated at some point by Porsche with the 3.0 RSR crank, Ti rods and special cams to build a very trick race unit with the good guy updates for longevity and high Rs. It still has the big factory RSR headers behind the Flowmaster muffler tacked on there to meet club Db rules. I would not be surprised if it does have high lift sprint cams...the rebuild to 2808 required additional fly cuts on the RSR pistons for valve clearance. And those high pressure flexible fuel lines came on this engine from Porsche. The 10k VDO was also supplied by Andial to work with this ignition set up.
    Early 911S Registry
    Looking for engine 960 168
    Looking for gear box 103 165

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