Hi Allen I read it all and wanted to confirm. I missed the info on the long spark wrench. The yellow screw driver I remember being post 73. I always wondered if they ever came in the end of 73.5 cars? Off to eBay they go!
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Very good ! The spark plug wrench was covered (#21 for example) but not easy to spot I suppose. It is in one, or more, of the photos of a very nice 912 kit. Yes, those screwdrivers and toe hook, since they are post 1973 or 1973.5 in fact, are not covered. Regarding the poor (shot) plating: some member buy these tools and have them replated. While it is NEVER really original looking, if one does them in a lot, they match and look decent. Thanks.
-Allen-
That was fast. :) Free bump but now I think you know more than you are saying in the ad !
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-Ear...c0Pp:rk:1:pf:0
Thanks.
-Allen-
PSI think your wrenches saw "Selected Steel"
No, from your ad you say "Wrenches say "Selective Steel"
I'd like to thank porschepilot99 for his impressive contributions to one of the most-viewed threads on the ESR.
Tool geeks,
Here we have a thick, shinny, two-tone bag with tabs (like on the 356 C/SC). Note, this is the second bag we've seen with one tab missing, torn off. This one is found in a highly original March 1965 911, 300517. Yet another confirmation that these are the de facto standard for early 901s and 911s thru about 301xxx. Thanks.
-Allen-
OK. In fact I do have 301100 in my DB and it is shown with a tabbed bag but I didn't realize it is your car ! Somewhere between 301100 and 301200 non-tabbed bags start to show up and no more tabbed bags; but I just have few cars with tool kits in that range. Thanks.
-Allen-
Early tool kit geeks,
It has been pointed out in a Private Message to me by a member who wishes to remain anonymous that "it is presumptious to say these shinny tabbed bags" are the "correct" ones for all these early 901s and 911s or "One Swallow does not a summer make." He is correct, of course, in that from just few examples it is not statistically valid to then assume that over 1,000 cars have this bag. I will say this, however, Out of the six or so original (not restored-mostly rusty cars in "ads" for eBay and other sources) with tool kits, ALL have these tabbed bags.
Please other members with knowledge of this topic, Chime in ! We only know what we learn from lots of folks and lots of examples. Thanks !
-Allen-
My question is about the 19mm lug wrenches. I assume the taper on the lug wrench was to act as the handle for the older VW/bug style jack. When Porsche changed to the green dot screw jack, there would not be a need for the slimmer tip on the lug wrench. So my question is could a 73 tool roll be correct with a non tapered lug wrench? I have someone with a 73 they bought new and it has a non tapered lug wrench. Patina on all the tools looks consistent.
IMHO I would say it is unlikely a '73 kit came with a non-tapered lug wrench. You make a good point about the taper not being needed but I've never seen a non-tapered one in an original kit. Could a non-tapered one be put in a kit during the transition to 1974 cars? Of course it could but, frankly, the tapered one is the de facto standard. If it were my car, I'd have both with a fun little story. Thanks.
-Allen-
We are on the same page, just wanted another opinion, a tool roll expert I am not.
The verdict is in.
Tool geeks and those not so geeky too,
Here is a confirming data on what we already know about 73.5 tool kits: Selected Special Steel Wrenches, Reversible Screwdriver; Hepewe Pliers, Tie bag (missing ties as they often are). This is from a highly original T Targa just now on eBay. If this was a couple years ago, the car would be sold by now; not mine; solid car withTTG lights, sports seats, factory air-needs full fairly easy (the body does look good) resto. Happy Thanksgiving!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1973-Porsch...Fd3p2o&vxp=mtr
Thanks.
-Allen-
901 ers and early 911 ers,
Here is one of several pictures of the 901 prototype 13325 from late 1963 posted by member "haul". Note the heavy black vinyl tabbed bag. We can't see the inside color, so this may be a re-purposed 356C bag but it shows, at least, the intention to use a tabbed bag in early 911s. Here is a link to haul's post. Thanks.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...rent-pics-1963
Hi Steve, You're right 73.5 is not the best, nor accurate for that matter, since RSs had the "73.5 kit." Maybe just 1973 kit would be better. Yes, the scruffy kit apparently is missing its spark plug wrench but otherwise looks indicative. Correctly dated fan belts are the icing on the cake for some tool kit guys and for early 356 kits, for example, they can sell for $100s of dollars. There are also vendors making early dated reproduction fan belts for the 356. Thanks.
-Allen-
Post #16 in this thread shows two '65 bags w/riveted clasps stamped IKA 1794 without tabs. I've also got a '65 bag that came from an original owner with the same clasps and no tabs. Same texture outside as in post #16, inside color a bit different. Quite sure it's an original 1965. That's at least three data points w/o tabs.
Also - Another example, Soterik posted this one of a 901 bag with a 12mm spark plug wrench. Riveted clasps, slight texture to the bag, and no tabs.
Re. Bags with rivets on clasps guys,
Did I miss something? I don't know that anyone posted that riveted clasps meant the bag had tabs? Did we? I've had many bags with rivets; some with tabs and many w/o. Thanks.
-Allen-
Hi Bruce, Not sure what your point is. All SWB kits should have a spark plug wrench in 10mm or 12mm, the 12mm was NOT unique to 901 kits. Did you read that somewhere.?But IMHO 901 bags did have Clasps with tabs. The pictured bag, therefore is NOT a 901 bag, however it sure is a 911 bag ! Thanks.
-Allen-
I just wanted to add my bag to the discussion. It came with #300338 (Jan. '65 build). Has the two-tone, thicker vinyl and the riveted/bent tabs clasps. Pretty decent shape with the exception of the torn pull. I've been told that this is one of the rare ones. It's my understanding that the bags were supplied by the dealers so it was kind of what they had on hand??? And if anyone has a 12mm allen wrench let me know!
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Cheers!
CEM is diffidently the King of eBay tool kits. Looking at a his posts, I find quite a number of interesting points.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1969-P...UAAOSwDABeN5p7
Never heard of 10.000V screwdrivers in 1968 tool kits. Likewise, never heard of SS wrenches used that early. Plus Hapewe pliers in 6 versions? I recall a few, but don't recall all the differences. I don't recall any showing up this early in SWB tool kits. From what I have seen/read/heard the earliest Hapewe was used is 71 or 72 possibly.
Hi Jim,
I agree with all your comments, including about Cem, the seller of the subject kit. The kit is a outlier and I can't explain it. If someone has such a kit in their car, they will have to have a good "story" for why that kit is correct. Generally such "stories" are met with skepticism. Perhaps a list member can reduce our questioning? Thanks.
-Allen-
I'm with Jim and Allen on this. He may be quite the seller, but that doesn't make him (and quite the opposite) a good resource for authenticity. He hasn't been around long enough to know what came out of a particular car and then be able to divine whether correct or not, he's cobbling stuff together. Note that I don't think the plug wrench is a correct 912 wrench. Imho, and in mostly general terms that I believe: The bag is 1968, the drivers are the bulbous end 1969 version. Wrenches were much later absolutely so they should be DFS as we all know them. Hapewe was much later, 72 possibly. This jibes with essentially what Jim and Allen are saying.
As time goes by and more cars have changed hands over time, and the cars have become worth so much more in $ terms, it's easy to say "oh, Porsche just used up what was on the shelf..." or "that item started early as they had run out of the others"... to me don't hold water in most cases unless documented here a while ago, or you truly have a long term owner who knows that is hasn't been screwed with.
Me (I?) and others have pulled parts out of cars, and bought cheap cars years ago that there was NO reason to be swapping out a pair of pliers or wrenches, and there are significant consistencies that can be materially shown here in old threads and original cars. And, it's not just toolkits, it's quit a few other areas of these cars as well. As the "old" members here stop playing with these cars/parts the material needs to be here to validate what truly is correct or generally assumed to be correct.
Climbing down from my soapbox, and note that I haven't started drinking (yet) today :D
E
Thought I'd share one of my finds from last weekend's Phoenix Club swap meet.
Originally delivered with an early (and long gone) '65 car and stored away for many years. Tabbed clasps, 12mm spark plug tool and allen wrench, all the goodies.
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Hi John,
Very nice ! (re. post #244, early kit) Confirms everything we know. Thanks.
-Allen-
Logged in to the forum after a few years, was good to see my name bashed here :) I hope you are guys doing well.
I will start sharing some information here. There are 4 types of 10,000V screwdrivers. First version is bright red non-translucent handle versions, saw them in as early as 1968 912 tool kits. Second version is the dark red handle versions, the handles are larger than the later versions. I saw them in 1969 tool kits mostly. The ones in the listing Jim referenced have dark red handles. Later versions are the most common ones we see in LWB tool kits, translucent handles that are slightly lighter than the ones in my tool kit that was listed. They have two versions as most folks know, one with the smaller diameter extensions around the blade and the ones without. I do not know if they were meant for different years or Porsche used two different vendors.
In terms of eBay listings, I put the tool kits together unless I state in the listing. That tool kit people are critizing, if you put a nice set of DFS wrenches ($500-$700), fish skin pliers ($200-$400), Kleins ($500-$1000), do you think a 1968/69 912 owner will pay $3000 for a tool kit? The tool kit has all original tools ( I will check the 912 wrench per Eric's comments) and original tool bag, it was a good deal for what you would get. For SWB tool kits, I have listed only one untouched tool kit recently and I stated that it was the only tool kit I have had that I can tell it was unmolested. It was a 1966 912 tool kit in exceptional condition with all original tools and belt, it didn't even sell for $3000. I could part it out and get $3500 for everything individually, but didn't have the heart to do so as I know how hard it is to find one. I will keep it for a few years and re-list it.
I do not disclose all the information I know as I am tired of people copying my listing texts and listing their stuff a little cheaper than mine. eBay is not a forum and I do not feel like I need to educate people on eBay. There are decent amount of reproduction tools and bags used in eBay tool kit listings, I do not sneak in reproductions like some others may do. I share honest feedback on PelicanParts forum, as it is a forum. You may think my reasoning is flawed or not agree with it but it is what it is.
I always list the tool kits as +/-1 year as we all know there was not that much precision in what you would get in your car when you purchase it. Trying to make people understand that there are many tool kit experts out there but you shouldn't disregard a nice tool kit just because experts tell you it is not correct for your car. I have been contacted by many people throughout the years that told me their tool kit did not match what the "experts" were saying and they were the original owner of their cars and the tool kit came with their car. I am not 80 years old but I learned a lot from very fine gentlemen who were kind enough to share their knowledge with me. Most have passed away through out the years or not capable of being in front of a computer anymore unfortunately.
In terms Selected Steel wrenches, I have had partial SWB 912 tool kits that had a mixture of DFS and SS wrenches. The tool kits are from the 1960's, so they may have been replaced some point of their lives. I have been contacted by a few early 912 owners that stated their tool kit came with the car and they were original owners, and they had SS wrenches in their tool kits. I do not know why the 912 tool kits were treated as the red-headed stepchilds and some non-ideal tools were used but this is what I have observed so far. I have some SWB 912 tool bags also that are thinner than the 911 tool bags, not sure if they were used for 911 tool kits also.
I will post some tool kit and tool bag pictures if they mandate a two-week curfew in Houston. It is not possible to tell the differences on some bags and tools unless you have compare them side by side. I buy whatever I can, compare them to what I have, and list if I have duplicate.Below are the different SWB tool bags I have, and I am missing the elephant hide vinyl and some rivet type styles that I know of. I keep pictures of different items that I sell also, I will dig up some original unmolested tool kit pictures that I sold in the recent years.
Welcome CEM ! OK..So please post specific photos of specific kits (generalizations are not too informative) with comments/labels when you do. Let's see what we can learn together. Disclosure. I've bought some stuff from CEM and it has always worked out. I will also note that PhD's and MBA's (me :) ) none of us know it all ! Thanks.
-Allen-
Thank you Allen. Going through some old pictures one. This one is labeled 1968 912 Wrenches. Interesting to see the 17/19 size is a Selected Steel. I do not know the story for SWB tool kits, but I know the following story for sure and saw many examples of it. Starting in 1973's, Porsche was running out of DFS wrenches. So they started using SSS's. The first size to run out was the 17/19 sizes. So you would see 1973-1975 tool kits with 17/19 SSS (milled) and the rest being DFS (not milled). I saw many 76-77 tool kits with DIN 895 stamped 17/19's and the rest being SSS stamps. So it looks like it carried over to next generation tool kits.
Anyway, here are some wrenches that were in a 1968 912 tool kit, DFS's do not have milled ends, open to discussion if they are correct or not. Would be good to learn. I don't have them anymore so cannot take more pictures.
1974-75 Tool Kit, I do not have it anymore.
Not sure what the cut off year for the forum is. I have ~100 911 tool kits for up to 1997 models, so let me know when to stop. I have decent amount of post-78 tool kits in unmolested NOS condition.
These are the early 10,000V screwdrivers I have mentioned. Only saw them in SWB 912 tool kits, one was a 1968 I remember. The flat tip screwdriver has the hubcap puller like the other versions, that's how I concluded that they were meant for a Porsche when I first saw them. I do not have the screwdrivers anymore.
CEM, I think these are later DFG's wrenches with large font and YES milled ends. I believe by this time (I'm just looking at the pix) that the milling was very fine, so you can't really see it but they are so smooth it is hard to see. In ANY case they are NOT the normal un-milled slightly uneven ones we see. Of course, when you (or anyone) then throws in a non-DFG it throws off the whole discussion of "original." I go back to "the gold standard," which is large font, milled ends DFG'd. Thanks.
-Allen-
Stated earlier in the thread, 10,000 Volt screwdrivers were generic German for the period. It might be the photo but ALL the handles we've seen on the thread are more translucent. These seem to be outlier; not "de facto" standard. However, the wide blade (to hold the pulley) does look unique to Porsche. Maybe the manufacturer had an off day..to much beer for Hans at lunch. List member commments? Thanks.
-Allen-
Comparison of Philips Klein screwdrivers. The bottom one is a reproduction. I do not know the difference between the top two in terms of which years they are correct for.
I found the perfect originals to have these reproductions made back in 2007-2008, I wasn't involved in the reproduction. I paid $500 for the perfect pair, it was a lot of money back then. They were so hard to find even a decade ago that a very nice gentlemen decided to make some reproductions to help the community. I see these tool kits for sale out there with perfect Kleins, hopefully this will help in identifying the repros. In person they are easy to identify, they are lighter than the originals.
Comparison of 4 different tool bags you can see for 1973 manufacture 911's. There are two versions of the button type, earlier one is shorter than the later one. The lug wrench for the earlier one is different than the later one (for 1974) cars, 1974 lug wrench will be too tall for the early version. These shorter ones came with Phoenix belts from what I have seen so far, the latest date I saw was June 1973 on the belts.
Probably have many of these posted, one more for reference.
Hello and an advanced thank you for all your help in this amazing forum. I have been for quite sometime looking for an original toolkit for my 1968/Flat6 equipped 912 1968 Targa. I have finally found one and despite rummaging through most of the information on this thread; I do know I have both original and wrong tools etc. but I am still unsure what what should and shouldn't be in my toolkit and what year it exactly is..either 68, 72 or 73.5. I am hoping to just at least have a correct complete kit based on my toolbag and the correct tools already in it. I hope the photos help...Thanks again everyone!
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Hello Al,
Sorry but you are going to have to keep looking for the right kit. One reason, maybe?, you couldn't find info on this kit, is much of it is post 1973 and we don't cover those later kits on this forum. Now we cover 912 tool kits in this thread. Look for that and you'll be OK. But I must ask you wrote: " 1968/Flat6 equipped 912 1968 Targa" Is that a 912 with a 911 engine? Just checking. Good luck with your search.
-Allen-
Thanks Allen, can you ID positively the date of my kit please? I actually thought as shown on some of the images on this thread including the open end wrenches, pliers and the bag itself etc. as being pre 73. Yes, my car is a 912 with a 911 engine. Thank you.
Al,
May I suggest you thoroughly go through this tread and absorb it. Also look on eBay for later kits. Doing that you will learn what you have. As I said, your kit is a mixture of years with some not even Porsche tools in it. Educate yourself. Good GLWS. Thanks.
-Allen-
I already have. Thanks nonetheless.
Tool geeks,
Here is a rare "Elephant Hide" tool bag from 1968. I've also seen this bag in an original 1969 911. List members, bags really aren't my bag; but I think the Elephant bag tended to come with cars that had the Elephant hide on their dash and door cards (panels). I think the predominant bag for 1968 with Black Smooth Vinyl, with a cream interior? Thanks.
-Allen-
Allen,
I too have been told that elephant bags weren’t in every 68 car, and have also been told by a seller at Lit show a few years ago- that they were in some 69 cars. Both sources were knowledgeable in my humble opinion. (Can’t say they are authorities.)
I am surprised that elephant bags outlasted the interiors, as they stopped the elephant interiors pretty early.
Scott
No. I've owned 2 low-mileage, one-owner '68 cars (still have one of them). Neither were optioned with elephant hide interior and both had the standard 1968 bag which is identical to '69 bags other than the interior vinyl which is a lighter "putty" color on the '68 bags and a slightly darker tan color on the '69 bags.
With the uniqueness of the elephant hide interior option, I'd bet my house that the elephant hide bags were intended specifically for those cars. Otherwise, why even make them and why have two versions of the '68 bag? I'd also bet that any '69 delivered with a '68 bag (elephant or standard) was done so inadvertently by the dealer or perhaps even the factory. Personally, I'd consider any such case to be an interesting part of the cars story as opposed to "correct" as the factory intended. But that's just me...
Were Elephant Hide interiors limited to L and S models? Small note: I edited my post soon after I posted it but some replies came too fast :p Thanks.
-Allen-
I've always been under that impression, and a quick Google search of 1968 elephant hide cars seems to agree. Of course, the second I post this someone much more knowledgeable than me like Erik L. will put me in my place (and deservedly so).
Geez... I wonder where we're all finding the extra time?
Porsche tool and 911 Fans,
Tell me about it ! I sold my numbers matching with original color, Polo Red, with one repaint. Soon after receiving it, the buyer repainted the car silver! Nice color and, yes, it was his car but Scheisse !!! Thanks.
-Allen-
Hello again! I have seen and read through 28 pages of this thread but I was wondering, is there a 'correct' way the tools are stored in the bag's individual pouches? It seems there are many variations but I was just wondering if there was indeed 1 correct and 'Porsche' specific way and in this case for a 68 SWB. It seems the tools; given their similar size, can fit in diffrent pouches within the bag. Thanks Expert Tool Geeks:o!
Hi Al,
Interesting question. I think the best guide for placement of tools in the bag, is the photo in the Driver's Manual for the appropriate year. I'm away from my "library" for a couple more weeks, so I can't access a few manual I have for pix. I'm sure some members can look in their SWB and LWB by year manuals and post a couple pix. Thanks.
-Allen-
Thank you Sir, with the amazing knowledge and reference from folks like you here, I finally managed to complete my 'modest' quality but 'correct' 1968 toolkit. Unfortunately, I am also searching for an instruction manual...
I had an interesting discussion today with an old Austrian gentleman I met purchasing some tools. To add further possible complexity to this subject, he showed me this Messko gauge, the one on the left in dark Grey, that this came with his toolkit from his early 70's Porsche. I actually showed him my red one which I claimed is the one and only correct one issued with the toolkits. Nonetheless, not that I don't believe him but I cannot dispute how sure he was about his grey Messko in his toolkit. Another mystery...
Attachment 523863
Getting your pressure right guys and gals,
Al, that's an interesting gauge and with a similar scale. Here's the thing though: the maroon gauge is THE accepted gauge, the same one was used in 356 C/SC tool kits, so it is what we call the "de facto" standard. That means, of course, that if you have that cool black gauge with your car, "some people" may feel it is "incorrect." Let's face it, does anyone have a perfect memory, how sure can someone be that a small item like this gauge came with their car? After all that was over FIFTY years ago! We are NOT saying that possibly that gauge didn't came with the original kit but/and we've never seen one like that (BTW Messko made literally dozens of versions ) Thanks for your input.
-Allen-
Good idea Allen....
I'll start the thread in the Technical Forum....
cm
They should be posted here as well. This has become the defacto resource for all things toolkit.
Well I was thinking about that.... However this is in a For Sale forum, and lots of posts could be in-between the manual photos... So if we have a consensus, we can double post.... I did however start and stuck a thread over in technical for just the manual photos....
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...45#post1059645
I'll go with what the board wants...
cm
We were thinking more of photos of the tools in the kit..how they are arranged. I recall this thread was at one time in Tech section but moved here where it has made a home. Thanks.
-Allen-
Allan,
To be clear, you are saying to post photos of contributors tools kits and how the tools are arranged in the kits and not …
And, would you want those posted here ???Quote:
… members take good scans from their drive'rs manual of the tool kit photo and post them?
Just trying to make this easy...
cm
Yes, please post photos on this forum from the Driver's Manual(s) of tools IN the bag/kit and/or out of the bag too if they show that way. Thanks.
-Allen-
Allen and all,
Hoping you get the responses you want here.....
I will delete the thread I started over on Technical...
Cheers,
cm
Thanks for the pix. That's what we're talking about! Nice placement of tools. I've not an idea if we'll see any consistency over the years? From 911MRP extracted from a 911T Driver's Manual. Thanks.
-Allen-
Now I’m really confused and a tad irritated because my post on this thread a couple of days back offering an item in direct response to Al saying he searching for “technical instruction” in post # 275 was deleted because of an objection from Allen that that said “ post should be removed because this is not a for sale thread ” ...
I didnt want to make a fuss so didn’t fight it as wasn’t much motivated to sell the item but was flagging a potentially relevant 68 possibly quite rare technical booklet in direct response to comment so it might find a more suitable home with his 68 than on my shelf given he was searching for “technical instruction” ....
The thread does sit under “for sale items” after all.
Consistency please if going to object and mods wield the post zapper...after all I’m trying to help and contribute knowledge not just using ESR to flog stuff.
I'm confused but not irritated... Did you remove the post? In any case..this is a thread about tools. So, did I miss it, was the post you're irritated about about Tools? As I recall, it was a general info from '1968." Yes? No?. I'm not the moderator..but IF you have something for sale, should it not be in a FOR SALE thread, not this tool info. thread? It would be better, no?, with a title FS rather than interred here with tools? Thanks. -Allen-
Seems to be in “for sale” not “general” section as it appears on my screen unless I’m misreading it
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I only offered to sell an item in direct reply to a specific comment that someone was looking for something that I had possibly rare might fit the bill. I had no thoughts of selling it until read his comment and remembered I had some tong gathering dust that might help.
I’ve probably sold a couple of items on ESR total so hardly serial polluter of threads globing my wares...having dug out photographed it to see if it helped but was hit with “ delete this post ...this is not a for sale thread” and rapidly it vaporised.
I did not delete post nor afaik was it moved so a waste of my time
Whatever
S
Hi S (?)
Well, I'll just follow the "logic" here. Did your item for sale have anything to do with tools? Al, was asking specifically, about tool placement in the bag, no? Since the post is no longer there, i gather the moderator removed it. You should be happy: you'll have lots more visibility for your specific item on a separate for sale post. Btw, aren't you in the U.K., isn't it 0135 GMT, why are you still up?! Let's get back to tools! Thanks.
-Allen-
My bedtime is being monitored ... moderators being asked by you to delete a post that was simply offering to sell something reactively only because the poster specifically said he was searching for something possibly along the lines if what I had gathering dust.
.... capitalising SALES THREAD (Shouting?) when thread seems to be within for sale section according to Chuck comment and as shown in the picture. It’s not like I’m polluting the thread or even ESR with endless for sale offers
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Way to go to encouraging contributions. And to think I’d just dug out several books and posted pictures from them tonight to help in response to your request for input. Really Allen?
If this is the moderator approach consistently applied going forward does this mean that other occasions when someone mentions in passing during some discussion they need x and somone else pipes up reactively saying they have one they’d sell ....both the the posts will now be deleted ...and a wtb and fs is required. Because that is the implication. Nonsense. Such in passing connections on “ I need want/I have one” moments happen regularly throughout forum discussion and is helpful aspect of ESR networking.
I don’t recall other occasions where like you someone has piped up expressly to ask moderator to delete such a happenschance single post that wasn’t a major rabbit hole.
If that’s is now the approach to these happenschance ’want /have’ connections then let’s be be consistent in moderation. But imo would be a nonsence and retrograde step. To be clear: of course posting FS items that are actively being sold needs to be placed correctly in FS but that was not the situation. A ‘by the way I’m looking for” “ oh since you say that I might have one of these I’d sell you for x ” is very different thing. imagine if every time that happened Somone piped up and said foul moderator delete? Hence my irritation that you actively intervened chose to request deletion on a reactive offer. Don’t care about money for Porsche hobby bits if I did I’d sell lots of stuff here like many do. To be clear item I proposed having seen Al comment wasn’t and isn’t for sale generally if not meeting Als expressed need in his I’m searching for comment.
Thank you everyone! This is so interesting, I have always seen the lug wrench facing the other way and the head poking out of the bag...which logically makes sense. Porsche didn't think so? Sorry if I have caused a little drama on this thread with my question....it's because of you guys I became so pedantic :(
Oh damn, the toolbag photo disappeared as soon as I posted the above message!
No worries Al. Glad my photo helped. It’s still there when I view it but can repost if disappeared.
More photos. Probably too blurred and poor resolution to help but here are e
Examples from two different RHD press demonstrators an E and and S (although model shouldn’t make any difference). I assume cars are nearly new and toolkits shown not messed with because press cars were maintained by importer PCGB in their three star equipped workshop in London Road Isleworth so seems unlikely journalists would’ve have troubled the toolkit Other than opening out to take photos.
Maybe something can be made out despite the limitations of picturing print resolution from hard copy of 70 and 71.
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Could be my eyes Or an artefact of image resolution but I only see one screwdriver Handle?Yet two is accepted norm from this era? Maybe a journalist had pocketed one already! Or just tucked under the other? Don’t think by this early stage it was the single reversible but who knows for sure?
My original maintenance record in my 73 has a perforated removable page intended to acknowledge presence of toolkit ( and other things) when delivered to first purchaser. Should’ve been torn out and mailed off to the address being postcard format iirc but tear out is still there in my model year 73 booklet. I know from the salesman who sold it the first buyer ( whom I also know) was a regular serial customer of high end cars from him ( they sold RR, Aston, Ferrari too) and they collected the car together on trade plates from importer and drove it to dealership so maybe signing it seen as unnecessary and a bit crass under circumstances.
Also shot of luggage liner shows woodboard pocket in dark contrast vs what seems much lighter hue felt underside. Also the UK only BSI safety belt aluminium tag on slam - bit I mustn’t stray from subject of tools at all or this post might be deleted For straying.
I previously posted a blurry image of the kit in the RHD RS press demonstrator but the quality probably little use in placement. Here someplace if someone needs it.
Steve
Al,
It's still there: See Steve's post #288 and my extracted image #290. I wouldn't get too hung up on the tool positions. For example, surely that lug wrench is "pointed" the wrong direction (for photo purposes, so you can see all of it) as it tucks under that flap which is then snapped down so the heavy lug wrench doesn't come out. Thanks.
-Allen-
Before I put sources away I had another go at the photos of the two press demo car toolkits taken in sunshine today not sure if it is any better than previous ones above given limits of iPhone and the paper original but posted here for those who want to look at nearly new kit so less likely ( but not guaranteed) to have been used at that time. What is not in doubt is the photos have provenance from back in the day 71 and 72 so not subject to all the uncertainties of nearly fifty years of unknowns of even cars thought fairly original:
2.4E RHD coupe published late calendar 71 is it my eyes but only one screwdriver in dark hue in black and white image?
Attachment 523942
RHD 2.4 S published early calendar 72
Attachment 523943
One screwdriver ? Car body in colour image is yellow but what is screwdriver colour seems quite light colour and maybe more an orange shade than red if using body colour as A reference? The original is a printed magazine internal page not a snap that is known to fade in that 60s 70s distinctive way
And a blurry photo of the RHD press demonstrator RS a 72 built car that arrived in UK at beginning of calendar 1973
With the tie string flap Justin bag tool layout is probably visible enough for those wanting to follow it (assuming this bags contents hadn’t been rearranged yet) which seems unlikely on a nearly new Example provided and maintained by UK sole concessionaires. Shot dating from early 1973:
Attachment 523946
For avoidance of doubt the report very specifically lists the contents of the toolkit on this RS. A very early RS iirc 006x vin so based on categorical datapoint in black and white Back when the car was brand new. Supports that these tie string Justin bags and the hard to find red handle reversible toolkits were in use for RS ( and TES presumably ) built and shipped before Christmas 72 ; as was almost certainly the case based on one in my slightly later but still 72 built sister RHD RS too:
Attachment 523947
Thanks Allen and Steve for taking the time to answer my questions. Cheers!!!!
More confirmation,
As found in unmolested 1973 911T Targa presently on eBay: tool kit as expected. Thanks.
-Allen-
PS Note factory relocated washer tank per "Factory AC."
Hello,
Would like to know if anyone has seen / owned a similar bag. The interior has a very unique texture / finish with perforated vinyl. Please zoom in on photo #4 to see the perforations. The exterior looks like a normal 1968 tool bag.
Input / comments greatly appreciated.
Hi Anthony,
Cool bag ! I'm pretty sure it is Porsche OEM. I guess it is fairly rare as even in Covid boring times no one has come forth with a similar bag. :cool: Looks to be in nice shape. Should you decide to sell it GLWS ! Thanks.
-Allen-
Attachment 528026
This is an excellent photo in response to my question Allen but where does the Messko gauge/pouch go in the earlier models? Thanks again!Furthermore, I tried to rotate my lug wrench as per photo and it didn't work. It seems the later tool kits have a longer bag?...I really think the lug wrench does face left and go under the left hand upper flap with the press stud.
Attachment 528091
Which one is correct for 1973.5 shoestring kits?
Good question. We really don't know. However, we prefer the ones bottom left and top right (the same pliers we think, you reversed them in the photos, confusing?) We prefer those as they have a "real opposed cutting edge" and they are heavier and more substantial. The other pair feel especially "cheap." Do you agree? Thanks.
-Allen-
Yes. That is what I was leaning towards as well. The flimsy pair has an 80’s Mercedes toolkit air about them. Now that we have eliminated that, where do the Hapewe ‘cut-out’ pliers fit in? Are they also correct for 73.5?
Again, we really don't know. Let's hope someone who really does chimes in ! Thanks.
-Allen-
The bottom one in the first picture / top one in the second picture, is correct for a 1973.5 tool kit.
These are from 2 1973.5 tool kits I had.
Another plier variation. I've gone through this thread a couple of times looking at pliers, specifically post #102, where there are 4 types shown. I obtained these pliers from a 66 MY 911. The main difference is the 'DROP FORGED STEEL' on the inside of each side, which is not seen on any of the pliers in that post. Looking for comments...Thanks
Harry
Hi Harry,
Thanks for your pliers post. Your pliers do look similar to the accepted, what I call the "de facto" standard pliers for SWB 911 EXCEPT for the "drop forged steel" on the inside of the handles. Does this mean, those pliers could NOT have been in an original factory tool kit? No, they could have, but I've never seen such. Maybe others have and will chime in, I hope so. A list member, with lots of experience, made some very accurate reproductions (https://www.autoforeignservices.com/) but I believe he no longer offers them. There were two versions: dull finish (SWB) and chromed finish at the top of the pliers. Please see these photos. Pictured here are ORIGINALS, however, the after market ones were, as far as I could tell, perfect, spot on. Like originals, the repros had no lettering. Thanks !
-Allen-
I wish I didn't know where to start, but I'll start with the tool bag. "Not original, not preserved, not amazing, not even close to ribbed." Plus commingling posts as 911 & 912 tool kits is just not right, so throwing in 1969 is fitting. It just gets worse after that...
Definitely some interesting information there for people who pay attention to the details.
Attachment 543969
This was a very interesting eBay auction that I just missed. It's a photo archive from Scott Emsley (rowdy205) who was in the Porsche toolkit business for many years. Too bad he didn't himself convert these to a different format and put them out for multiple purchasers. Having an archive of toolkit photo's from ONE person who was heavily involved in them for years would leave little to chance in terms of presentation (imho).
While he and I had a few disagreements on kits, we agreed on 99%, and he was good to talk to at the Lit meet over the years.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PORSCH...p2047675.l2557
This sold yesterday. If it was purchased by a member here, if you convert it to disc/thumb drive or a download I'd happily pay for those pics for my own collection, watermark it if you want, no problem for me. I'm sure it would help with my own toolkit/travel kit collection as I continue to archive it for presentation in my new office/museum.
Very interesting Erik! I've known Scott for about 20+ years when I began my interest in Porsche tool kits. In the early days we traded tools. One time about 10 or so years ago, I visited him in Carmel and he had about a dozen 356A kits in green bags he had just purchased in a lot. The collection sold would be interesting, especially for early Pre A kits, which are poorly documented with few, if any, original examples, well covered. In fact, a few years ago Scott sold his Pre A 356 and at about the same time he sold a partially complete early Pre A kit. He said at the time he'd been trying to complete that kit for years. He had given up and at about the same time got out of the tool kit hobby business. I hope whoever bought the diskettes, will share photos of early 1950s kits. Kits after around 1955 are pretty well documented. I doubt we will have any surprises from photos of kits relevant to this list. Thanks.
-Allen-
I've had what 500 wrenches (?) and maybe a few (5?) were Selected Steel, so if this is correct that SS were introduced for the SWB 912 why is there not 100's of SS wrenches floating round. I'm in the camp that the SWB 911 & 912 tool kits were the same except for few tools like the Klein 21, tommy bar, generator wrench, CV, P208. Input please?
It is highly unlikely that 911 and 912 had different common tools, such as open end wrenches. A look through this thread shows that 912 kits had the same common tools such as drop forged steel Large Font open in wrenches, found in SWB kits. Thanks.
-Allen-
Putting the last items together and can see my Hapewe pliers are not correct. This is for a RS. These are later than 73.5 correct?
Yes Rick, those are the (even) cheaper Hapewe pliers. I believe they should be these ones. Thanks.
-Allen-
Thanks Allen, now over the the WTB section.
Here is the tool kit from a one owner 67 912 SWT with 50k miles. Here is original tool,kit. My brother said he thinks he replaced a screwdriver, and perhaps the fan belt, but all else original, including black pliers.
Just FYI, the last black handle pliers I saw in a correct kit was in a 1963 356 kit although the shape of the ones in your bother's 912 kit look more correct for a circa 1958 kit. Perhaps the 912 prior owner, had a 356? The rest of the kit does look "correct." Thanks.
-Allen-
There was no prior owner. He picked it up at the factory, and now I own it. I have never seen black pliers on a 9 series car either.
Can’t argue that Alan, lol
sorting through stuff I stumbled upon a handful of early tools ... a Klein 21 among them. comparing it to another in the inventory I noticed a difference.
the wrench pictured on top is from an original owner '71S (fan belt dated mid-1970) it's 5mm longer than the recently discovered example (bottom = 145mm)
as a note, the tapered spark plug wrench in my '73 kit is slightly shorter again @ 142mm.
1973 tool kitters,
Here is representative kit, as expected, for an original 1973 911T now on eBay (not mine, no affiliation). We think we can just make out the red handle for the reversible screwdriver in one of the pockets. Note the snaps, not drawstrings, bag in this example. Thanks.
-Allen-
from the original owner of a '71S. fan belt is dated June 1970.
Looks like the one I just got outbid on on eBay. :)
Hope this works...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12468183969...p2047675.l2557
seeing these 2 kits side by side for the first time the light bulb went on re: post #s 164 & 176
Finishing up a 1969 911T/ES tool kit. These are one of my favorites.
What is the correct material for the ties (non snap) 73.5 tool bag? Are both sides equal length? Thank you
From post #5. Yes. same length.
Thank you - does anyone have a source for the material or have the tie they would sell me?
what is correct length?
Allen,
My I impose on you to measure the width of the string?
Do you think the greenish appearance of the tie today is due to fading? was it originally black and faded to the greenish look?
Thanks for your help
If you have the bag, should be easy enough to approximate the length of the strings by measuring your bag and looking at the photo. I rather doubt whomever sewed all of those bags originally were all that picky on the exact measurements of the string lengths, equal lengths of the strings and exact placement of the bag attachment. I've only had one string bag and my recollection is that the strings were faded as you would expect from cotton shoestring. Personally I'd be banging around thrift stores looking for material, LOL.
Toolkit from my 66 912.....the black/red bag is pretty scarce I think....tool gurus?Attachment 554912Attachment 554913
Hey Bill, yes they are pretty rare. These are the ones I have, I previously posted this pic. My "smooth" one has the same clasps as yours. I think the guy who sells a lot of parts here also has a couple.
E
Thanks for the input Erik
The tool bags with red interior, is there a year difference for the linen exterior vs the vinyl exterior? Thanks.
linen/red interior are less common (rare) and I believe came before the smooth/red interior
Well, I would agree that linen came before smooth, with the clasps that we see here,.... with the cream interior.
But, Bill has this bag in a 66... I believe he's had this car a long time. Longer than what we could typically think of in having people mess with tool kit bags. So, with red interior bags, maybe smooth is first ..
Appreciate the info everyone.
Bought my 66 912 13 yrs ago from 45 yr friend dentist who owned it since 78, so I`m pretty sure the kit has been with the car a long time......it`s a Reutter car
I have had several red interior bags over the years and luckily some came with original Phoenix belts in them. One linen bag had a late 65 belt in it, another one had an early 66 belt. I have seen the smooth vinyl ones listed as 1967 tool bags before. If a 66 car got sold late in the year a 67 tool kit may have ended up in it.
You can tell that the linen one is earlier than the smooth vinyl one from the lug wrench button. Vinyl is very thin, so it is hard to find them without any rips or holes.
Makes sense to use the dated fan belts to attempt to date these kits to the model year they were meant for. Especially, using unmolested tool kits.
I understand that nothing is absolute about which model / year the kits came in and it’s very difficult to determine which vehicles they were placed in since dealers sometimes handed out whatever kit they had at the time.
Page #81 of Dr. Johnson’s new book has a “1969 912 elephant hide tool kit bag.”
I always thought the elephant hide bag was meant to match the elephant hide interior trim found in only the early 1968 911S/L’s. Not many elephant hide bags were made. Now, I understand that one could’ve still been around a year later at a dealership somewhere and that bag was issued to a 1969 912. Anything is possible. I firmly believe it was meant for the early rare elephant hide interior.
I also believe that for the next 20-30 years someone will quote the book to justify the elephant hide bag as being “correct”for the 912 and 1969 model year.. And so it goes.
Hi Anthony,
Yes for sure elephant hide bags were found in LWB 1969 911 and 912 Porsches. They probably were left over bags for the 1968 MY. Thanks.
-Allen-
Hello Allen,
I’m sure some made it over to the LWB and 912 models.
What are your thoughts on the red interior bags? Which bag came first, linen / red interior or smooth / red interior?
Hi Anthony, Since you asked me I'm responding with a prior disclaimer: "bags are not my bag." So, honestly, I do not know. I would add however that a linen exterior with a red interior is the cat's meow! I'd also venture a guess that the linen was earlier as it was, no doubt, more expensive and Swabians always want to save for the same function. Thanks.
-Allen-
Sorting through the original toolkit for my recently acquired Ossi Blue 69S. All the usual suspects: bulbous, deep red screwdrivers, 69-style toolbag, correctly dated belt, and one of my favorite Porsche Easter eggs, the re-stamped 17/19 wrench with the non-standard "17". I have three of these wrenches in my collection and two of them I can date to 1969 toolkits (the third is an orphan of unknown provenance).
Attachment 555540
Attachment 555541
Cool. If it were a "55 double die penny" it would be worth a fortune. What we have here is a defective casting..there must have been a lot of them, the cast number "17" had a problem. "What do do Hans?!" No problem Jurgen, we'll stamp as 17 like in the old days. We Swabians are so smart and thrifty. Send it to Zuffenhausen, they will never catch it !
between what production dates would a car have the 73.5 tool kit?
Not sure what “the 73.5 toolkit” referred to is but I know of December 72 carburettor T cars and November production MFI that got the red handle reversible, tie bag kits. Those kits precede January 1973 production.
I think I understand the intent of question and not having a go at the poster. Just trying to be clear given the nature of this thread. Don’t believe the toolkits were different for that North American CIS market variation dubbed 73.5 than contemporaries with MFI carburettors on other markets.
The point I’m making being in this thread that aims to unravel toolkit change chronology as best we can given the real world factors is that it can be quite misleading to label this toolkit configuration “the 73.5” just because a particular North American variant with CIS often dubbed 73.5 happened to usually have them too.
Not disagreeing if referring to NA market CIS car model it maybe was the toolkit typically seen in that market specific model’s production from Jan 73. But to be clear that is certainly not the car production date the toolkits with red reversible screwdrivers were first seen. Different things!
Just saying is rather vague in the context of a German manufacturer serving multiple international markets to think of it in that way. The toolkits were certainly available earlier than Jan 73 production so that particular phrasing and the answer can confuse a forum that aspires to be international.
We wouldn’t want people to draw the wrong inference from a (maybe USA centric?) phrasing of question and answer that might not correctly reflect when the variation of toolkit first used in the 911.
I don’t know exactly when the toolkits with tie wrap and red reversible screwdriver first used but it was found in cars produced in calendar 1972. I have previously provided documentary evidence in black and white from when late calendar 1972 cars were new that ( for example the Carrera RS vin 0061) had that distinctive reversible screwdriver tool kit and it is documented in usual places that car would’ve been produced in November of 72. Not a guess the reversible screwdriver is noted in the commentary written in the day.
Attachment 556287
I’m not a fan of term 73.5 because I don’t believe that terminology was used by factory back in the day to describe what they offered for sale so it another one of those invented terminologies that at time can confuse matters in vague usage.
If the difference is November 72 vs January 73 then I’d say it is important to be less vague — let’s be accurate and clear on what the question and January 73 answer means. For me important that any vagueness doesn’t get picked up as January 73 production date in model year 73 being the first the red handle reversible tool kits were used.
Steve
Yes, incorrect of me to use the term.
I guess the more specific way to ask my question,
Would a RS only come with the toolkit that had the reversible screwdriver? Would very early cars say 11/72 production have come with the 2 screwdriver version of the toolkit? from what you describe on the 006x Carrera RS, I think that implies all RS cars would come with the reversible screwdriver toolkit.
As said I don’t know exactly production date when that kit first seen but it was certainly earlier than cars built January 73. Of that I’m sure since car being referred to in the snippet is RS vin 0061 built November 72.
While 911 were not assembled in vin sequence with the start RS series being vin 0011 it was the evidently case — at least from roughly the fiftieth example built. There are many real world factors that might’ve caused differences in an a relatively unimportant accessory set being put on a specific car but it seems safe to say the 72 built
RS got that reversible screwdriver version of kit. At the other end I understand the impact bumper necessitated the inclusion of the different multiple interchangeable set with a long screwdriver to clear the bumper. A long screwdriver P xxx was also introduced on the dealer tool catalogs I think for this purpose, but this thread doesn’t focus on impact bumper cars or P-tools.
The authors in image above were writing about RS
0061 when new. My 72 build RS has the same kit.
There was a tear out card on the maintenance book for first owner to acknowledge receipt of various items including toolkit, lackstift. My papers still have it and the items listed including the lackstift — many homages make it easy to forget Grand Prix white was reserved for RS in model 73 so would have not been the mainstream touch up that year.
I had noticed you sometimes ask about RS so that’s why I jumped in because despite saying 73.5 I thought you maybe wanted the factual answer in regard to that / non USA models.
I don’t know what 73.5 really means exactly as not afaik an official term but pretty sure the RS despite it being introduced early October as a limited edition for markets that specifically excluded the USA it isn’t what people
mean when they bandy that 73.5 term. Not sure what is attraction if these and other informal terms over being precise?
My intervention applies to other models — I certainly know 72 built model 73 cars that have the same toolkit so it is not an RS kit specifically . Image with comments on reversible present in RS 0061 when new certainly helps date production well before January 73. As said 0061 is an 11 / 72 build.
Not sure what counts as “very early RS”? We know from little factory tech specs booklet 319 RS chassis were built before end of calendar 72 so maybe that is one datapoint that the factory themselves shared as a milestone worthy of recording within the first 500 series for whatever reason. By virtue of being that calendar year they are early?
I don’t have evidence before November build so wouldn’t assert all as some RS / TES cars after the summer changeover might still have got the prior two screwdriver version as they phased inventory out plus all kinds of pragmatic reasons an older toolkit version might’ve found its way into some model 73 911 cars. Drivers manuals are hardly the most reliable source of authenticity but despite some things that are questionable on the books tool section’s artistically arranged shot of model year 73 it does show the reversible type screwdriver — not a reprint my car’s original glovebox book. My original English language RS blue supplement doesn’t show a toolkit because as stated kit wasn’t any different to MY 73 TES.
Important to correct (with evidence) what I think is misleading information when I see it posted on ESR as it tends to stick and then become accepted as correct. I piped up because I don’t believe January 1st 73 production cars holds-up as first date the kit with the distinctive reversible screwdrivers first seen. Several months prior was the case in my observations as supported the in period comment about an RS that in November 1972 was about the 50th built.
Attachment 556297
Hope this helps
Steve
+1 re John's statement above "I don't think anyone ever took "73.5" to mean EXACTLY 73.5. Give or take a couple months is close enough for me." Thanks.,
-Allen-
My lug wrench seems to be a little long for the tool roll. Any thoughts?
Rick, if you have a Sawzall, you can shorten it? Just kidding of course! I believe there was a similar post about this somewhere in this thread. At that time, at least, and still I don't believe anyone has studied the question other than to say, yes, the length varied. Perhaps a "study" has been done since then? Thanks.
-Allen-
I'll search through this thread and see what I can find, thanks Allen.
Thanks Mike, mine is stamped 19mm on the shaft. Anyone have one for sale?
Got one, thanks
LWB lug wrench has the 19mm stamp on the socket area also. The LWB lug wrench stamp is visible when the socket opening points left when placed on the tool bag. 1973.5 lug wrench has the stamp visible when the socket opening pointing right, it is also shorter than a LWB lug wrench. The one you have is a 1976/77 lug wrench.
folks, what do we make of these wrenches? "Drop Forged W. Germany" machined ends. What year / model? I've seen "Drop Forged Steel" and "Germany", but not this combo..
Attachment 561033
Got to figure that the company that supplied the tools to Porsche for the kits was also putting out tools for other markets besides the Automotive market. Likely the same manufacturer but, not the exact forgings we're used to seeing in our kits.
I posted this in the Technical Forum earlier today, but I was redirected to this crowd for some answers on my 1968 911L tool kit. I want to make sure that my tool kit is complete for my US-delivered 1968 911L with a 2/68 build date. I am pretty sure I have everything except for the tire gauge case and the full fuse box (I could only find one floating in the case). But I am wondering if I am supposed to also have one double end 19mm & 22mm box wrench. My uncle bought this car as the 2nd owner in 1973 and I bought it from him in 1992, so everything I have today is original to car when my uncle bought it in 1973. I just want to make sure I am not missing anything . TIA for the help on this!
Attachment 561252
You definitely need the 19/22 box wrench. Also you are missing the original Phoenix fan belt.
You can clean the interior of the tool bag, they clean up nicely and will look much better. It does not look like you have fan belt staining inside, which is a big plus.
Your tools are in great condition. You can soak the lug wrench in rust remover, that should help. The tip of the flat Klein may be damaged, I do not see the hub cap remover extension but it may be the picture.
Thanks,
Cem
Super, thanks Cem. I have now sourced the correct 19mm-22mm box wrench from a fellow forum member and with your help I now have the correct Messko gauge and storage case. And my longer flat blade screwdriver definitely does have the hubcap remover extension at the bottom of the blade. I had positioned the screwdrivers that direction in the photo to show the “KLEIN” lettering imprinted on the handles, but I can confirm that the other side of the blade definitely has the thinner end for hubcap removal.
Thanks for the suggestion on cleaning the bag and tools, this patina is all original dirt and grime from my uncle’s original ownership back to 1973 and I haven’t touched this kit since I bought it from him in ‘92 :)
911L Guy,
The pliers are also wrong and the tire pressure gauge is wrong, it probably should have a red plastic Messko in a grey vinyl pouch. Thanks.
-Allen-
And to further complicate things..anyone seen of this? It came out of an LWB kit and all the others are machined on both sides.
Attachment 562301
Attachment 562302
Attachment 562303
Attachment 562304
The subject is not in good shape. But we think we see on one end machining marks. On the other we see crackling with likely corrosion/rust under. Sand that plaiting off and we bet you will see machining marks. Thanks.
-Allen-
I have a complete and very nice early riveted tool kit and the fan belt is dated March, 1963. Could this possibly be for an early 901 model? Please provide your opinions and let me know if I’m reading the date correctly.Attachment 570131Attachment 570132Attachment 570133
Thanks
Anthony,
Probably not as the first 901's were made late in 1964. IF the bag has vinyl tabs, though, the kit could be for a 901. Let's see the bag. Thanks.
-Allen-
The thickness and texture is obviously different from my other early bags.Attachment 570143Attachment 570144Attachment 570145Attachment 570146Attachment 570147Attachment 570148Attachment 570149Attachment 570150Attachment 570151
Anthony,
The two-tone bag, black/beige (or white?) with tabs is probably an early 911 bag. I'd like to buy it so pleaSe contact me. Thanks.
-Allen-
Allen, I sent you a pm. Thanks
I have this 17/19 spanner (wrench) marked PORSCHE.
Attachment 572732
Attachment 572733
I often see orphan drop forged, special selected steel spanners etc asking quite high money and those West German made were not always unique to Porsche — they are generic. Presumably Porsche bought those fairly unremarkable generics in certain sizes to make up toolkits that are discussed so throughly in this thread. Quite often those generic ones can be found around Europe, not just metric sizes but in imperial sizes. I found a set of imperial sss from my father among many tools not part of anything he valued as were thrown in a mixed lot unlike others from Hazet etc he had carefully cared for in sets. So clearly generic no great shakes quality just interesting these days because Porsche happened to use them in kits I suppose.
For some reason Porsche around 1962 went to the trouble to have some spanners ( wrenches) made with PORSCHE on them, like this
Attachment 572735
Rather than settling for what presumably would’ve been easier sourcing generic DFS SSS and so forth or Hazet as had been used before. Doesn’t seem to be anything special about it other than the PORSCHE brand marking. So not clear why they bothered having company name put on some batches? Quite neat to have the marking these days I suppose.
From the nicely organised 356 tool site this type seems to be for a 356 around 1962.
Attachment 572734
I’m not often a seller of my old things so will probably keep it. I have friends with 356 so possibly there is a more suitable home if it is a rarity that helps complete someone’s special toolkit set. It has no real significance to me because have the correct ones in original toolkit for my car and I don’t plan to get 356.
Posting a question on this 911 thread because I’m wondering if these particularly in the 17/19 size had ever been part of 901/911 after the use in T6 B 356? Or other models of sixties? At this stage I’m not offering for sale just seeking to learn more — maybe folks here knows more about the PORSCHE marked ones? Are they common or quite rare?
Steve
Steve, et al.
Yes the Porsche wrenches were found in 1962 toolkits, one year only. Since they are cool and say Porsche, they often ended up in mechanics' toolboxes. In the early 1960s Porsche changed the toolkit almost every year. In 1963 they had a really cheap kit with a tie bag and DIN wrenches. I've only seen the Porsche wrenches in the 1962 kits. Thanks.
-Allen-
I just found this very early tool kit bag, reversed colors, riveted and pull tabs. I also have the only one and three color early 911 bags I have seen, I like the oddballs.
Looks nice and it is a weird one. Looks like, though, a 356 bag but that my opinion. Thanks.
-Allen-
Ive never seen or heard of a two color 356C-SC pouch. That is what differentiates 356C from early 911. They are dimensionally identical to the first 911 bags, If anyone has Id love to hear about it. I have seen many odd swb 911 pouch color arrangements. I bought it described as swb 911 from a Ca. business with 356 in their name, that being their specialty. Of course everyone is welcome to their opinion, especially educated ones.
Ozbey had a similarly bag as above, white exterior and black interior and he called it a 356 bag.
I also think it’s a 356 bag. Nice though.
Cem has given me some pretty bad info about early 911 key pouches so I doubt his expertise. Remember that 356C and 911 were both being built for a short time but .01% of the 356C bags might be two color and 99.98% of 911 bags are two color. I have provenance for my one color 66 911 bag, anyone with provenance for a two color 356C bag? Not all at once :). Funny how one or two semi-knowledgeable people can stigmatize what I think is a pretty rare and valuable find, a 64 tool bag. Again, the 356 specialty business sold it as an original early 911-912 bag. I wonder if Doc Brett or other 356 guys have good data on 356C bags, I know the 911 guys are in the dark.
Somehow CEM thinks SS wrenches are standard to 912 tool kits. SS wrenches are few and far in-between, if they were a standard 912 tool kit items, you would think there would be thousands out there. I've had hundreds of DFS wrenches, but probably less that 10 SS wrenches. For sure the 356C tool bags came in many colors, but the one I've seen the most is the grey bag, which might turn a shade of green over time. I've talk to Dr. Johnson prior to the printing of his Early 911-912 book specifically on tools, he said, he is not an expert on tools. I provided him with a lot pics from archives and the trend or info I have gathered by have many partial tool kits over the years.
Personally, I've only seen this bag in several early kits. It is the only one I've seen. I've not saying that "C" bag is not correct, only that I've not seen it. The "C" bag came in many color combinations including two-tone bags.. Thanks.
-Allen-
I am trying to put the tools for my 65 911 (3011xx) back in my tool bag. Would someone kindly post a photo showing where each of the tools is supposed to go in the tool bag. Thanks!