RS #1036 sells at Bonhams

We have discussed value of these cars from time to time so I thought I would pass along the info on the sale of this car at Bonham's recent Olympia sale. Here is the description of the car from the catalogue.

"Sold new in Germany on 1st April 1973 via Porsche Centre, Stuttgart, this Carrera RS was ordered with the factory fitted options of limited-slip differential, sports seats and ‘Touring’ package – Porsche’s luxury trim for its homologation models.

Exported to Hong Kong, in 1992 the car was significantly restored and professionally converted to right-hand drive by German Motors Ltd. of Kowloon at a cost of $122,000.

Imported into the UK in 1996 it has seen little use while in the present ownership, covering some 15,000kms between May ‘96 and today. (the total reading on the original odometer being 50,000kms-or-so). Described by the private owner as in good to very good condition in all respects, it is finished in the most appealing colour scheme of Tangerine Orange with black interior and benefits from uprated brakes, suspension and a Scott & Hayward exhaust system. Offered with V5 registration document, MoT and road fund licence to February 2004.

Estimate: £22,000 to 25,000
Sold for £21,500 ($42,527 USD)"

Here is a not so good photo of the car.

http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/...4/img07pop.jpg

Several things are interesting. Originally this was a Light Yellow car that is now Tangerine and it has been converted to lightweight specs. The engine number matches the chassis number, but it was converted to RHD at great expense(is that $122K USD?). Considering the money spent on the conversion, it sure sold for low price. According to 'Carrera RS' this car was the first RS to come off the normal 911 production line because the homologation stipulations had been met. Any guys from the UK know any addition info on this car? Just curious.

It could have sold for this price for a couple of reasons...Bonhams left out the word "Replica" or they are showing the good side of the car as the other side was train wrecked.

Seriously, Could the color change and change from left to right hand drive hurt the value? I also noticed in the picture that the front wheel cap was missing, the bumper stripe sloppy , the rocker seems to be "bowed", wheels finished wrong...Maybe it is just not a "Good one" or it did not present well.

Best,

Don

Well, let's see...when was the last time any of us heard of a real RS, touring OR lightweight, RH OR LF drive, go for UNDER $50K? Under $60K? Even under $70K would have to be considered 'quiet the bargain', to quote a GOOD FRIEND!;)

Generally speaking, cars sell for what they're worth, with the occassional exception where somebody overpays - LESS OFTEN, the 'steal' comes along, especially at auction...SO....my guess there must be some VERY VERY expensive and SERIOUS challenges here....Don - I agree, maybe it's a C-L-O-N-E !

In Feb 2002, I was seriously considering this RS, which was being sold at the RM Amelia Island auction. I just couldn't get down to see it, so I didn't bid. It ended up selling for much less than I thought - $48K, looks like someone got a great deal. Yep... one that got away, but you never know with auctions - if I had bid, it may have gone for much more.

Does anyone know any details of this car or where it ended up going?? I don't recall the number.

Edit: Don't know why it's listed as a 72 here. I do remember it having a "36" in the VIN.

Greetings,

That car was bought by http://www.heritageclassics.com/porsche.html and relisted and for $78,000+ and since sold a while back.

Best,

Don

Don, thanks, I was just about to post that info. Nicholas Cage bought it from Heritage. It was bought by Heritage along with a Gulf Orange RS, and both were sold for $78,500. I heard they were both poorly restored.

I was struck by the cost of the conversion to RHD and restoration in addition to the description of "good to very good condition in all respects" compared to the actual selling price of only $42,500.

I quess a number of things can happen in 10 years since the $122,000 was spent, to devalue the car. It must be a mini train-wreck at least.

Stacy,

The RM auction description lists Nicholas Gage as the seller at $48K. Looks like Heritage turned it for a nice profit if they received their asking price. Here is another example of a large amount spent on restoration ($100K) and a sale of $48K. As you said Stacy, it must not have been a high quality job.

Guys, Could you have this backwards? Cage sells low at auction, Heritage buys and resells for $78,500? That seems to make more sense but??

Best,

Don

Quote:

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Originally posted by Rennman
Guys, Could you have this backwards? Cage sells low at auction, Heritage buys and resells for $78,500? That seems to make more sense but??

Best,

Don

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Don,

That is what I was trying to say, it just wasn't very clear.

Both cars were bought AND sold by Heritage. They were bought at the same time, from a European seller. They were listed for sale at the same time, and sold within weeks of each other.

Nicholas Cage bought the Gulf Orange one - I know, because a friend of mine passed on it right before Cage bought it. I have no idea what happened to the car after he bought it from them. Their listing price was $78,500, I have no idea what he paid. But they were pretty firm....:D

$122,000 hk

DIVIDE BY 8 roughly is $15,000 us. the guy was in hong kong:p

Quote:

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Originally posted by watt
$122,000 hk

DIVIDE BY 8 roughly is $15,000 us. the guy was in hong kong:p

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Watt....

That's gotta be it. The $$$ to convert it to RH drive just doesn't make sense if we are to believe the selling price was only $48k

Thx.

WOW! A Hong Kong conversion. That can't be good for resale.

Best,

Don

Don, it wasn't:( Thanks for the currency info Watt. Makes more sense now.

1/I don't know if it really matters anymore but you may wish to know the following details concerning 911 360 1036:

1036 was the very last Carrera RS built using lightweight panels.

Back in the day, UK and European ethusiasts [and publications]used to refer to a total of 1036 1973 Carrera RSs. This was based on the cars being constructed using all lightweight [as applicable] panels. The Factory recorded it as 1000 cars to meet homoligation and an additional 36 cars which happed to be the amount that used up the lightweight panels.

I believe that 1036 is particularly significant as it was the FINAL "LIGHTWEIGHT" Carrera RS built. Many built after had a variety of lightweight parts but I suspect that none had all of the lightweight bits and I believe that any of the early lightweight chassis cars are neater than the later cars built on 911S [heavy] chassis but trimmed as M471 and called "lightweights" but the general community.

John Rice

2/Only after the cars shot up in value in the late 80s did you see references to the entire production run as genuine RSs. I realize that the RS Book refers to a total of 1590. In the day I seem to recall that they referred to the cars beyond 1036 as slightly different. An irony is that in the day everyone seemed to refer to the cars as "RS/RSL/RST" for "base RS/RS to lightweight specs/rs Touring w/911S street equipment". Of couse, this is all wrong and the base stripper [no one would want to ever drive] was actually the RSH [holomigation], RS [or M471 or Sports as they were variously referred to], and RSL [M472 or Touring and I suspect the Factory meant Luxury].

To appreciate my comments, you may wish to consider that I own #1122 [some,but not all, lightweight panels]. I still believe that all the RS cars are great as long as they are DRIVEN and USED HARD, just like the Factory intented. Perfect collector cars belong in museums, not garages!

GodSPEED all!

John Rice

Greetings,

While I have never measured an RS personally. I did recommend to someone they measure the metal on a questionable car that was thought to be retubbed. It turned out the car had been clipped and they were able to tell what was thin and not thin.

I also think my first series cars are thinner by how easily the panels move/bend. When I bought #93 I had a ding specialist go over the car bumper to bumper getting out not just dings but waves in the metal as well. It seemed thin.

I think a first series car will always be a little more special because of the unique feature of thin sheetmetal.

Best,

Don

On my series 1 and series 2 cars the thinner steel is easily detectable. For example, light pressure from the palm of my hand deflects the steel on the roof of those cars. By contrast, the roof on my '73 T doesn't budge when I try the same thing.

Greetings,

The difference between the LW thinner sheet metal and normal is only 0.08 mm. 0.80 +/- 0.02 mm to be more specific and 0.88 +/- 0.02 mm for the sheet metal used in S-ess and the later Touring versions. If you want to measure it correctly, remove the two M5 bolts from under the dash above your knee, remove from both sides with fine sand paper a little circle of paint of the sheet metal, use a small mirror and measure the thickness of it the metal. I think all the RS's had still the thinner metal there. This could be an point to look at, and check if the later RS is a fake one (please don't quote me on this).
In order to recognize a later RS, check if there are any race seat belt points under the parcel shelf. They were unique in the RS.

Cees

Cees,

Never thought about measuring the metal there. Good thought. That would only apply, of course, to the first 2 series of cars though. Are the race seat belt attachments in the last series of cars also?

The best way I know for sure if a fake is suspected is to check the production # with the serial # of the car. Not exactly simple, but the best proof there is.

Brian,

I believe only the later RS's have those mountings. Not sure though. It''s pretty easy to reproduce the serial number plate in the trunk, I bet it has been sone before. The production number under the dash is a good indication as well.
Later, i.e after 1409 have the RSR suspension.

Cees

Hi Georg,

Is that than the difference between a S and RS, or did the S have them as an option?

Cees

Other early cars do have a threaded hole on top of the rear dash metal one on each side near the edge BUT it is unlike the threaded bosses in the RS that point toward the driver not vertically.

Man this is an illness!

Best,

Don

Don

My 70 E has two seat belt mounts pointing forwards, though it's not easy to see in this picture

http://www.early911.co.uk/911E/asset...tout-5-300.jpg

Wow Nick,

I stand corrected. Sorry George. So what is the deal? These are not on all of the cars. They are not in my 68 and I do not think they are in my 72 T.

Best,

Don

I'm wondering if any of the RS cars were supplied without the retractable seatbelt on the driver's side. Mine is missing the entire assembly and only has a four-point harness. The shoulder belts are using the rear "jumpseat" mounts, with appropriate screw-eye hardware. The normal mounting point on the "B" pillar is unused and is covered by the interior trim. I know that the threaded hole is in there because I can feel it.

My question is was this possibly supplied this way from the factory?

Jol

My car has still the original non-retractable seatbelts mounted via the bolt on the B pillar.