Outside mirror options

This is not exactly a cross post. More like an extension. I wanted to know what mirrors I should/could use on the 911. OK, I heard Durant up to '71 (my year). Talbot as an option. Flag for '72-73.

Well, BIG problems. I got some Durants. My choices were 4" dia. for 60's 911's and 4 1/2 dia. for '70-71. I get the larger and it is truley a POS. What's more, since I have holes on the pass side, I go to install that one first. It won't turn or go down far enough to be usable. Runs into it's own base. Clearly not designed to be used on pass side. So, they go back.

I'd like to use L & R mirrors if possible especially since the pass door has access holes indicating that it really was an option. Not to mention that I already have holes.

I, once again, need your help. BTW, I talked to 3 different of our well known parts houses, and on this one they don't have a clue.

My 67 has a dealer installed 4" passenger durant mirror, it is placed in the same door location as the driver side...and is completely blocked by the A post. I feel your pain.

I have tried a 4.5" passenger side talbot and I can see, maybe 20% of the mirror face. I am ready to pull the mirror and put little black rubber buttons in the holes. My suggestion, go with the 72 style flag mirrors...in chrome of course.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/pmpre/im...r_6-03_003.jpg

Shawn.

Not clear what you mean here. If you are not a councours nut you can put some chrome rectangular BMW mirrors on -- they look almost exactly stock -- except for the stems which have a different curve to them.

The Durant mirros are cute but don't function very well as mirrors.

Are yo considering flag or 993 aero mirrors? I don'tthink they would look right on an early car.

I guess I should have made myself a little more clear. I'm only considering correct and period correct mirrors. Jeez, I rebuilt the entire braking system with less trouble.

Talbot mirrors are still available www.talbotco.com but expensive. Lest there be any misunderstanding, the Talbot name and design are now owned by a gentleman in the Los Angeles area. They don't come from Europe.

In the early days of 911s, if you ordered Talbot mirrors, they came in a box and you got to drill the holes to mount them. There's no "correct" spot for them.

The hole spacing is not the same as for Durant mirrors. Also, if you want a passenger side Talbot mirror to reflect a piece of your car in its view then you will have to mount it at an angle (I think this is the case for some of the rare 904s I've seen).

Zeke,

You are indeed 'up against the wall' ..... the stock small rounds don't work worth a damn...

One sugestion is trying the R/L reproduction early flag mirrors that Performance has (# 910990 and 910991 - $79.95 ea.)

Here's-the-deal...

The factory NEVER had a right side small rectangle mirror ... a couple of years ago a vender casted them up and Performance seals them. More bad news is that both left and right reproduction small rectangles are poor quality. Where the stainless surrounds the glass is rippled where it's crimped.

Wish I could come up with more options...

Maybe period racing mirrors isn't such a bad idea...

The help here is awesome. This is my 3rd project car is 4 years. I tend to forget that it is a tough road. Both of the previous cars has taken about a 1000 hrs and maybe an hour or two each night on the Internet. God, do I wish I could just walk into the import auto store and buy this stuff like I used to.

Some of my earlier projects were a '36 and a '50 MG (Moss Motors)
A few Corvettes (lots of sources, but that was 30 years ago)
A Jag (tough one, never do it again)
A '44 Jeep, Deployed as a US Navy communications vehicle (lots of sources for military vehicle parts) Still in the stable.
A bunch of VW's: Transporters, Vans and Bugs, mostly convertables (we all know about how much stuff is out there for VDubs)
A '77 Targa (I spent too much money on that car)
And I rebuilt the front end of my '89 Chevy PU when some girl hit it while parked last year. Totaled, but back on the street in 2 weeks)

But Porsches ain't easy. It's been a tough day.

Stick with it Zeke...

Think of all the up-sides... least of which is sharing your 'illness' with the likes of us ... and vice versa... ;)

Cheers,

Who sells Talbots?

Zeke, I vote Talbot. They are pricey, but one option you might consider is looking for some Shelby Mustang/Cobra mirrors from the 60/70's. They used Talbots (or Talbot look-a-likes??). Here's one source that sells repro's for fairly cheap:

http://www.cobranda.com/categoryget....D=372&DeptID=5

Also, my original 71 Durant has a small stone ding and I'm considering replacing it. Are you saying the repro's available are poor quality??? If so, I may also go to a Talbot style. My concern is whether the Talbot base will cover the same area as the Durant base. I don't want any 'indentations' in the paint from the original mirror exposed. -- Curt

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Originally posted by Zeke
Who sells Talbots?

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www.talbotco.com ( or cibieusa.com )

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Originally posted by CurtEgerer
My concern is whether the Talbot base will cover the same area as the Durant base. I don't want any 'indentations' in the paint from the original mirror exposed. -- Curt

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there is a major differance in the base size and the way a Talbot mounts, they will not cover the mounting area of a durant mirror.

Not everything that was designed to be put on cars is supposed to be functional. Lot's of things are for show...it looks Kool. So it sells. Some things are just to make do, with whether it works or not as a secondary consideration.

So if ya wana stay stock pick the poison that works best for you.

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Originally posted by CurtEgerer
Zeke, I vote Talbot. They are pricey, but one option you might consider is looking for some Shelby Mustang/Cobra mirrors from the 60/70's. They used Talbots (or Talbot look-a-likes??). Here's one source that sells repro's for fairly cheap:

http://www.cobranda.com/categoryget....D=372&DeptID=5

Also, my original 71 Durant has a small stone ding and I'm considering replacing it. Are you saying the repro's available are poor quality??? If so, I may also go to a Talbot style. My concern is whether the Talbot base will cover the same area as the Durant base. I don't want any 'indentations' in the paint from the original mirror exposed. -- Curt

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Yes, I saw Branda's mirrors. I can't put a mirror that was primarily a Shelby thing on my car. Doesn't work for me.

On the Durants: I purchased a pair from xxxxxxxxxxe xxxxxxxs and they were shipped turned 180 degrees from the way you would use them. the catalouge says the mirrors fit either side. I swiveled them around and they were too tight to adjust, so I looked in the base and tried the Allen bolt to loosen them up. It just spun. So, I took the glass out (I sure hope the seller doesn't read this) and found the nut on the inside of the mirror housing. I disasssembled the whole mirror and found a bowl shaped washer that the bolt goes thru and is the inside member of the supposed swivel mechanism. Well, the cheap washer had a big groove in it from turning the mirror around the right way. I tried to polish the thing and reassemble the mirror, swivel and base. Didn't work very well yet.

With all the trying to free the thing up for smooth adjustment movement, I noticed that the weld on the mirror housing stem had started to fracture. This whole thing is very thin guage stainless steel. I'm thinking what the hell am I doing having to rebuild a brand new part?

I called the catalogue cust service and they pulled another of the shelf. They said it was very stiff. I said send me a call tag, I don't want these. Also, the mirror won't adjust so that you can see behind you on tha pass side even with the bolt all the way loosened. The mirror housing hits the base before it will turn enough to see back. They never did work on the pass side in that particular design, I can tell you that. So, that part of the product description in the catalogue is a lie.

Curt, you take that to mean anything you want it to . I take it that either the catalogue has inventory that was purchased cheap because of a bad batch, hence, buy 2, save $31. Or, the Durant is a POS to begin with. It did say made in Germany, but I've never seen a German product made this poorly. I'm all done with this type of mirror.

Strict correctness is not important to me. So I went looking for a compromise between an appropriate period look and the safety concerns that come with operating the car on multi-lane roadways and race tracks.

You need functioning mirrors.

Mine are the 74-75 chrome models. Rectangular, but slightly larger than the 72-3 ones, so you can actually see what's behind you.

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Originally posted by Zeke
the whole mirror and found a bowl shaped washer that the bolt goes thru and is the inside member of the supposed swivel mechanism. Well, the cheap washer had a big groove in it from turning the mirror around the right way. I tried to polish the thing and reassemble the mirror, swivel and base. Didn't work very well yet.

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Hi Zeke,

My Durant mirror is sorta loose. I adjust it and it holds in position when I'm driving in the city but on the highway, I guess the wind blows it down a bit.

Can they be adjusted for tightness? Is there a bolt of sorts? On the glass side or stalk side? I would think it's on the stalk side but I hesitate from removing it just yet coz the paint is pretty nice on the car and yes, I have no balls! Haha...

Sprint.

Give the Talbots a try. There are several different versions and some neat finishes. My favorite is the aluminum. Comes as a spun aluminum finish, but I took some fine scotchbright to them and then polished them up. *That* gives it a real good period look.

Jens, I special ordered a polished alum one. Thanks

Sprint, you have to remove the glass by slipping the plastic ring out. That way you can get it adjusted where you want it and cinch it down. The Allen bolt goes thu to a nut which is behing the glass. Not the way I would desgn a mirror. I guess you can put the glass in for adustment and hold it a moment with tape. Frankly, I don't think I want anything that is that much trouble. Who knows, maybe the originals work fine. I didn't have the luxury of having the originals.

In Peter Morgans book it is mentioned that in some countries the Durant mirrors were not allowed due to government regulations and that the 911's were delivered in those countries with the small rectangular mirror that is also delivered from 1972 onwards.

So it is original to equip a 1971 Porsche with the rectangular mirror, at least the left mirror is original. We will mount a right side mirror as well because the Durant mirrors are useless in the traffic in The Netherlands.

Kind regards,

Sander

Great info. I'm seeing (no pun) the Talbot convex mirror as the answer.

What kind of tree is that? It really has pretty yellow flowers.

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Originally posted by Zeke
Sprint, you have to remove the glass by slipping the plastic ring out.

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Zeke, how does one slip the ring out? I've been staring at (not staring in!) my mirror for a good 5 mins and no clue... :(

Sprint.

My car(70 911s) has Durant mirors for both the driver and passenger side.
I can never get the passenger mirror to work; i thought it was just me but as i can see from this thread I am not the only one.
My question is this:
is there anyone who has got their passenger side durant mirror to work and if so how?
thanks

and found through (non permenant) 3M attachment, that the best passenger side talbot placement is the same as Soterik's car, pictured.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/pmpre/im...rik_talbot.jpg

Visibility is greatest at the same location on the passenger door, only slight blockage from the rearward vent window frame is present. Raydot mirrors attached to the window frames is another costly alternative...but you still have to fill and paint the holes. :mad:

He he, Soterik is going to start charging me royalty fees for my frequent posts of his car. But, can you blame me...that car is the hottest swb out there.

Shawn. :p

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Originally posted by SprintStar
Zeke, how does one slip the ring out? I've been staring at (not staring in!) my mirror for a good 5 mins and no clue... :(

Sprint.

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My courage came from the fact that if it went in, it's got to come out. Start by slipping a thin knife behind the plastic. Grab the plastic with some small needle nose; use a thin rag to save on the scratches. And be careful, pull it out.

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Originally posted by Zeke
My courage came from the fact that if it went in, it's got to come out. Start by slipping a thin knife behind the plastic. Grab the plastic with some small needle nose; use a thin rag to save on the scratches. And be careful, pull it out.

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Haha... You are sure a brave soul! I shall follow!

Sprint.

I talked to Gunther today at aardvark (Talbot). My question was about the u-bolt mounting system for my mirror. He says it goes upward from inside the door and is installed thru the access holes. Is this possible? Talbot mirror owners help, please.

yes it can be done, but ....and that's a big but you have to take the glass out of the door to get in there to do it. my 67 came from the factory with talbots mounted out on the fenders the U bolts are great for fender mounting or if the door is completely disassembled. but for easy door mounting the surface mounts are a lot faster you just drill two holes screw on the surface mounts and mount your mirror.

I now have two talbots that will remain in thier box. :mad: I bought them a year ago and only briefly attached each with one of the existing mirror holes.

And, then there was some duct tape involved in finding the optimal location (see above post) BTW duct tape glue is the most difficult chemical to remove from California sun bleached p car paint. :rolleyes:

I think, that if my 67 ever gets restored...it's gonna be side view mirror delete.

Delete, delete, delete. Shawn. :mad:

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Originally posted by Zeke
I talked to Gunther today at aardvark (Talbot). My question was about the u-bolt mounting system for my mirror. He says it goes upward from inside the door and is installed thru the access holes. Is this possible? Talbot mirror owners help, please.

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I don't know how many early 911 doors Gunther has seen at close range. He helped out with the mounting on my '65 but that was about five years ago.

It's easy enough to mount a Talbot in roughly the same spot as the driver's side Durant, and there are some access holes in the inner door sheetmeyat which give access to nuts that would hold a Durant.

Those access holes help a bit when you fish the u-bolt up and through the holes you'll drill, but you almost certainly need to remove the door panel.

My access holes are in the door jamb area next to the A pillar. Not back by the fixed or openable vent window. the point is can you snake the u bolt in thru one hole?

the u bolt is the strongest way to mount a talbot mirror but when I tried to use the u bolt I couldn't get it in those holes and my door was already put together and I didn't feel like taking it apart so I just used the surface mounts and they work and look great you might want to ask Eric (soterik) how he mounted his, I've never asked him how he did his.

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Originally posted by Zeke
My access holes are in the door jamb area next to the A pillar. Not back by the fixed or openable vent window. the point is can you snake the u bolt in thru one hole?

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As I recall, I took the door panel off. That might be easier to do on a 1965 911 than an early '70s car.

The access holes for the Durant make it easier to do the job since you can stick your fingers in those access holes to manipulate the Talbot U-bolt, but I don't know if it's possible to maneuver the Talbot U-bolt through them.

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Originally posted by NeunElf
As I recall, I took the door panel off. That might be easier to do on a 1965 911 than an early '70s car.

The access holes for the Durant make it easier to do the job since you can stick your fingers in those access holes to manipulate the Talbot U-bolt, but I don't know if it's pissible to maneuver the Talbot U-bolt through them.

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That is pricisely the question here. You laid it out better than I did. Gunther says yes. I'm skeptical.

The Talbot U-bolts have been in my doors for five years or more. I think I took the door panels off to mount the mirrors. I had those panels off quite a few times while restoring the car.

The upholstered panels are held on by sheet metal screws in a '65 (and through at least '67) so taking the panel off was pretty straightforward. Getting the armrests back in place takes some fiddling.

Maybe you can maneuver the U-bolt through the Durant holes, but I would advise you to not drill holes in your door unless you're prepared to take off that door panel to finish the job.