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Hiding in plain site; Oldest 911 in USA? Historian help please.
Hello All,
I’m new to your forum and just love it. I am looking for some historian help on what I believe may be the earliest 1964 901/911 in the US.
I have had the car for some 30 years and when I bought it, turbo steel flares and IROC front and rear bumpers with a glass ducktail were installed. Also the engine and trans was replaced with a 1974 2.7l CIS. It came with a full roll cage and some unique suspension upgrades. No doubt this car was raced in the 60’s. I just love Porsches’ and driving 911’s, but I never thought much about the detailed history and frankly with all the different upgrades and modification, I figured my car would always be an outlaw, my outlaw, and that was good enough….until now.
After 15 years in storage, I got the bug to go through everything, front to back and spend some time in the shop. A lot older and little wiser then when I first purchased, I began to notice unique features I believed were only on the 1964 and race pedigree 1964. Wipers park on right side, no indents on engine bay for stickers and 64 door handles. Also, the front Koni struts were double adjustable and steering arms appear to be shortened. From what I read, the SCCA allowed both of these modifications in the mid 60’s for C-Production and B-Sedan entries.
The build number near the smugglers box and the driver’s door match and are 300005. According to Porsche production sheet, 300005 was the 6th car produced on 21 September 1964.
My questions are, “Is this a significant car of interest? Does anyone know of any race history ( driver, entries etc)? Are there any other markings identifiers that I could be looking for?”
The only other information I have is that at one time this car was registered in Arizona.
Thanks for all your help.
Jay
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I"ve been trying to post. Having issues
Hello,
All the positive energy; I love the enthusiasm, very cool! Who ever said “this would be a wild ride” was a bit of an understatement.
I'm just a regular guy paying the bills during the day and playing with my hobbies in the evening. It may take a little more time for me to share some of the great history of 005 with E911s. In addition, with such knowledgeable folks on E911s, I would be remiss in putting out incomplete or inaccurate information
300 005 was born on 21 September 1964 in a signal red coat with black pepita interior. I don’t have all the details on this 51 year old red head quite yet, but I can share some of its storied history with you. This history I know is accurate because I was there.
It all begun in 1976 or 1977 working at my brother’s service station, pumping gas, washing windows, checking oil and servicing customers cars. It was still a great time for American muscle cars, GTO’s, Cuda’s , Superbirds, Camaros, Mustangs, AMX you get the picture. All great cars. In the Midwest, exotics were pretty rare. Ferrari’s, Porsche’s, and Mercedes were uncommon, at least in my neighborhood. One day working at the Station, a 911 coupe pulled in for full service gas. It was the first time I had been up close and personal with a 911. The air cooled engine sounded pitched and precise, meaningful. The line of the door blending seamlessly into the rear quarter panel and then falling away. The hood profile, low and smooth. Glorious. I remember being ever so careful not to spill any fuel on the fender. The windows were spotless so I ask to check the oil. He said “its fine.” I insisted, “The only way to know for sure is to take a look, just take a second.” But he said” I have a gauge and its fine I’m sure.” I finished with the fuel. Before he left I ask “can I just look at the engine?” He said he was in a hurry and would stop by again. The 911coupe pulled away and I was hooked.
The next day I went to the Porsche dealer, Concours Motors, to get a brochure. While inside I saw a poster on the wall. It was a 1973 RSR Carrera. There it was my dream car of all time. Next step, get a poster for my room and start saving.
Fast forward 8 years. Still working at service stations, but now pushing my way through college. Every weekend I would pour over the classifieds in the newspaper looking for a 911 on a budget. Then I saw it. “Porsche 911 red $11000. Way way way over budget, but let’s take a look. Can always negotiate, right?
When I first saw the car it was over. Had to have it. It looked like a turbo, but wasn't. It looked sort of like the poster but defiantly not an RSR. To me it was perfect. None of the gauges worked. Didn’t matter. The seller would only let me ride in it, not drive it. Didn’t matter. Couldn't afford it. Didn't matter. The title was a little unusual. Didn't matter. I called in every marker I had, called every friendly relative I knew (mom) and went into debt.
I started working two jobs, while going to school and could not have been more excited………..till
Well, more to come if you’re interested.
I am also on the trail of some truly interesting stories from the first 20 years. If they turn out to be true, it will be a lot of fun.
For me it’s about the experience with the car. Does everybody remember their first ride in a Porsche? Their first drive? The first one they bought? The sound of the engine in the cabin, the experience of a road trip, autocross, road rally? The first time you really hung it out there and said”Ohshit?” I do. Like it was yesterday.
The tales of the men behind the wheel and their experiences is what I will try to uncover with 300 005. How long did it live in Germany? When did it come to the states? Who put those flares on? And why?
I’ll do the best I can on the kardex. I really want to understand this document and the other technical information.
Below are some bits;
-The first picture is of the inside of the gloovebox lid of 005. The unique feature in 1964 is 4 access holes for securing the wood fascia. In 65 there are 6. 2 additional for mounting the 911 script.
-The next pic is of the top of door frame of 005. Two screws were used in 64. 1965 and beyond used three.
-The next pic is of the “Delivery date from factory” and “Date delivered to buyer” looks like one day in between. But notice the dates are backwards and the “?” Seems 005 was delivered before it was produced. Nice trick. Also, according to Jurgen Lewandowski the first deliveries occurred November 16-17 to the dealer organization in Zuffenhausen. Looks like 005 got out early!
-The fourth pic is of the upholstery type – “Black Pepita”
-May 1985 – 300 005 with a loose nut behind the wheel
Going Bananas
More to come! Enjoy the ride,
Jay
300 005
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Some observations regarding 300005
901 ers and others,
These comments are IMHO and mine alone although others may agree or disagree:
300005 looks to be an authentic 901 from, at least, the dash back. We see the ID plate, number "05" on door, correct screw count on chrome door trim and flat rear latch panel (wish our car had that !). To me this is a 901. That being said, the car has obviosly been significantly modified. To name a few things: rear fenders; deck lid, flared rocker panels, front bumper, etc. Also the original engine(s) and transmission, I believe, are missing. Still it is a 901.
In front of the dash, some questions arise: 1. why the adjustable shock towers; 2. why is the stamped VIN on raised metal and is the hose (see photo for 300061) running down the side rather than in a factory hole? It does seem strange, to me, that for a race car, car with a modified front clip, someone would go to the trouble to stamp an original VIN? Perhaps the factory might do this if a car was returned later for repair of a seriously damaged car. Or, yes, maybe for "prototype-like" modifications.
I wrote "protoype-like" in that as posted earlier, the definition of a protoype is somewhat ambiguous. I suppose a car that had many modifications at the factory, and recorded on the Kardex, could or would qualify as a protoype. Like some others, to me, it makes little difference if it is a prototype or not. It is the earliest 300000 series car known in the world I believe,
Many if not ALL of these questions could be cleared up with more photos and posting the Kardex (which many apparently, have access to and several have seen). Also soon several "experts" will see the car.
It is just a matter of time; no matter what the outcome, "the truth will come out." Of that I'm confident.
Thanks.
-Allen-
