A/C or not?

I have a 2 owner (+ me) SWB 911 coupe that had A/C installed right from the dealer when new. (Yes it's stated on the original bill of sale.)
While doing an unsympathetic restoration should I leave it or remove it? All original sheetmetal and no rust repair required but if I remove the system some holes will need to be repaired.

Does the A/C hurt or help the value?
I have no intentions of keeping this car so there's absolutely no personal preference at all.

Thoughtful opinions are appreciated.

Thanks.

Keep it, but don't sell to any one north of the mason-dixon line,,,,,they wouldn't get it :cool:

+1 for keeping it Frank. If it is on the original BOS, it's a nice feature. How unsympathetic are we talking here?

The car has been down for over 6 years. It started with just a respray then prices started going wonky and one thing led to another, and another, and another... Obviously I don't have any sympathy for it or myself.

Looks like I'm out voted at this point. Thanks for input.

I would keep it and make sure it works. For me the AC would be a nice thing to have during our Oklahoma summers.

Frank,

It is a testament to the timelessness of the 911 design that a pure SWB, to the modern eye, has a contemporary look, at least from the top side.

Air conditioning components were industrial to begin with, and as such their design hasn't aged well.

Funky York compressor the size and weight of a cinder block.

Aeroquip field-replaceable fittings, before the days of crimp.

That crazy orange braided hose, looking like a python curled up taking a nap on the warm engine.

Condensers in weird locations.

Evaporator that doesn't really work.

Crude hole saw ports rimmed in rust.

Funky vinyl air plenums that look like prototypes, because they basically were prototypes, compared to the production numbers of the later cars.

These things stand out, offend the eye, disrupt the logical flow of "form follows function" that makes the 911 design harmonious.

You might think these are arguments to dump them, but they are the opposite. They are arguments to KEEP them.

Next time you go out for lunch take a look at what's on the road today. The combination of aerodynamic laws and globalization of design teams have made modern cars all look the same.

They are efficient, they are safe. They are BORING.

Where are the standouts that exemplify independent design values?

My eyes are drawn not to the next three-box design but to originals from Paul Bracq, before Bangle ruined everything. Harm Lagaay, before the comeback.

So where am I going with this? SAVE the stuff that makes the car look OLD.

It funkifies the design, gives it a time reference that the perfect design lacks.

And while you are at it put your smog pump back on.

JFC

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Originally Posted by


I have no intentions of keeping this car so there's absolutely [I

no personal preference [/I]at all.



Thanks.

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Unlike you frank to answer your own questions.

Mark

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Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Looks like I'm out voted at this point. Thanks for input.

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Frank are you feeling ok? I think you need a vacation.

How can you be outvoted if you had no personal preference?

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Originally Posted by 304065

Frank,

It is a testament to the timelessness of the 911 design that a pure SWB, to the modern eye, has a contemporary look, at least from the top side.

Air conditioning components were industrial to begin with, and as such their design hasn't aged well.

Funky York compressor the size and weight of a cinder block.

Aeroquip field-replaceable fittings, before the days of crimp.

That crazy orange braided hose, looking like a python curled up taking a nap on the warm engine.

Condensers in weird locations.

Evaporator that doesn't really work.

Crude hole saw ports rimmed in rust.

Funky vinyl air plenums that look like prototypes, because they basically were prototypes, compared to the production numbers of the later cars.

These things stand out, offend the eye, disrupt the logical flow of "form follows function" that makes the 911 design harmonious.

You might think these are arguments to dump them, but they are the opposite. They are arguments to KEEP them.

Next time you go out for lunch take a look at what's on the road today. The combination of aerodynamic laws and globalization of design teams have made modern cars all look the same.

They are efficient, they are safe. They are BORING.

Where are the standouts that exemplify independent design values?

My eyes are drawn not to the next three-box design but to originals from Paul Bracq, before Bangle ruined everything. Harm Lagaay, before the comeback.

So where am I going with this? SAVE the stuff that makes the car look OLD.

It funkifies the design, gives it a time reference that the perfect design lacks.

And while you are at it put your smog pump back on.

JFC

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Wow.

Quite the commentary. I can't say I disagree at all. Rough hewn clunkiness is somewhat attractive; just ask my wife. (I'm glad she married for humor rather than good looks, money, stature, or intelligence.)


Fortunately it's a 67 so no air pump.

Best laugh today!!!

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Originally Posted by 304065

And while you are at it put your smog pump back on.

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Originally Posted by StephenAcworth

Best laugh today!!!

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No Joke!

Everybody copies the 911R. Pull the air snorkel off a 79SC, close enough!

But to have in place all the original weird stuff that our cars had in 1968? The stuff that was angrily thrown away in the go-go '80s?

'68 man. The Platypus year. I think I said once that the only thing harder than restoring a '64, due to scarcity, was restoring an ORIGINAL '68.

Anyway Frank's car is a '67.

That AC could be useful at the track but not in the way you might think. . . in addition to keeping you cool in the Paddock, flipping it on at the third brake marker ought to get a nice chirp out of the 165's...

Just one more opinion. If you don't have a front cooler, aftermarket a/c makes the engine run too hot. It really baked the magnesium case on my beloved 73, many years ago. Also, the folks at the dealer appeared to have installed it with mining tools and explosives. They actually cut through the kidney pan to get inside the rocker to run the hoses up to the front. They did this, I think, with an air chisel. All this, and more, at a Porsche dealer in LA! I really dislike aftermarket a/c. My case was especially bad, but I've never seen an installation that looked good.

The Aeroquip hoses in the factory a/c systems (not the neat-o aviation stuff, this hose was for heavy equipment) are kind of cool looking in a 1969 Mercedes Benz 300SEL 6.3, not in an early 911, IMHO.

BTW, the aftermarket a/c in the 73 worked great, as air conditioning!

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Originally Posted by Tom F.

Just one more opinion. If you don't have a front cooler, aftermarket a/c makes the engine run too hot. It really baked the magnesium case on my beloved 73, many years ago.

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Mag eng cases were a boneheaded idea and perhaps the main reason they were in production for only 10 years. You're definitely correct; without benefit of aux oil cooling mag self destructs and leaks. Aftermarket AND Behr A/C equipped mag case cars need aux oil cooling. In Phoenix back in the day it wasn't uncommon for 2.7's to run almost 300 degrees oil temp in the summer without a second cooler. Brutal.

The sand cast alu case on the other hand could survive a trip to the sun and back; they are remarkably robust. Plus, these SWB A/C systems use a fairly large, fan cooled condenser in the left front fender that keeps the high side pressure down to a fairly efficient level and oil temp under control. There's really no need for aux oil cooling. BUT, it's never a bad idea in very hot climates.

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Originally Posted by Frank Beck

just ask my wife. (I'm glad she married for humor rather than good looks, money, stature, or intelligence.).

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She's a keeper Frank.

My recently purchased 72 T non-sunroof coupe had dealer installed AC that one of the previous owners removed and had covered the various crudely (and I mean crudely!) made holes for the various components with different types of material held in with glue and or sheet metal screws. I just finished removing any evidence of those 'holes' and the patch panels with new sheet metal surgically MIG welded in and refinished, so evidence of what I'm sure was a rather inefficient system is gone.

Any A/C a boon here during New Jersey summers

So Frank, what's your decision? I have a 68 912 with an original "aftermarket" A/C that was installed by can opener mechanics as well. I removed it bc a 912 is slow enough, let alone being burdened by boat anchor A/C.

I respect the opinions here as I think they represent a cross section of legit owners and buyers. A/C is going back on.

I would never, ever put A/C back on a 912; even in Phoenix.

On the one hand if you leave the AC stuff, I'd think there's an expectation that it should work... Not sure you want to get into fixing old AC...

On the other hand if you take it out I'd think there's an expectation you'd want to close all the holes and there are many, if my cars were any indication...

On the third hand, it's all aftermarket dealer installed crap that, at best, was likened to a squirrel blowing on an ice cube, and it does increase engine temps significantly on no-cooler or even trombone-cooler cars... I only got it to stop doing that after a carrera cooler + fan was installed. The under dash vents on the early cars were always interfering with my knees too.. Then I yanked it out anyway because it was in my way and not super cold to justify the trouble... Some folks buy the aftermarket vents and stuff for $$, as I found out after I trashed mine...

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Originally Posted by Greg D.

On the one hand if you leave the AC stuff, I'd think there's an expectation that it should work... Not sure you want to get into fixing old AC...

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Uhhh... A/C is our wheel house and we do it exceptionally well.


Not only will it work; it will freeze the Mrs out.

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Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Uhhh... A/C is our wheel house and we do it exceptionally well.


Not only will it work; it will freeze the Mrs out.

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I think that having the factory A/C will be a benefit to the sale, particularly if it works. Did you do the ones in Duane Hyatts cars?
E

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Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Uhhh... A/C is our wheel house and we do it exceptionally well.

Not only will it work; it will freeze the Mrs out.

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Well then, definitely fix it ! ;-) In that case it's a plus !!!

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Originally Posted by Soterik

I think that having the factory A/C will be a benefit to the sale, particularly if it works. Did you do the ones in Duane Hyatts cars?
E

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Thanks Eric.

Yes; we did Duane's A/C and the rest of his mechanicals.

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Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Thanks Eric.

Yes; we did Duane's A/C and the rest of his mechanicals.

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Ahh... good to know, Duane was very complimentary on the work, particularly on his COOOOOLLLLLD A/C!

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Originally Posted by Greg D.

Well then, definitely fix it ! ;-) In that case it's a plus !!!

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Agree - put it back on, fix it, whatever. I am considering getting a/c installed on my 71 so the Mrs will actually ride with me - then again...

I'll just leave this here. Non-invasive, no body mods, half the weight and uses less than 1 HP.

http://www.classicretrofit.com/elect...11-1974--1989/

Dealer installed? I say pull it, fix the gaping wounds.

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Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Uhhh... A/C is our wheel house and we do it exceptionally well.

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Do you use R12 in the old systems?

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Originally Posted by Tom F.

Do you use R12 in the old systems?

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Definitely.
R134a doesn't come close. Been hoarding R12 for years.