Choice between 2 classics

Hello all,

I am considering two cars , one a 2.2S MY 1970, and the other 2.0T MY 1969 .
They are both with history and backing service invoices and both with a documented restoration to perfection.

The 1970 2.2S is at a price of 18% more than the 1969 2.0T

With the difference in price not being a huge issue ( considering the purchase of a car for collection ) what would be the best choice if there was one ?

I thank you all for your help in answering .
I will purposely not mention the colours not to get any biased answers , they are both in gorgeous colours and trims inside.

If both cars are physically equal (Score equally at a concours) and documentation equal, then the 2.2S is a much rarer car and far more valuable than the 2.0T; much more than 18% I would guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davep

If both cars are physically equal (Score equally at a concours) and documentation equal, then the 2.2S is a much rarer car and far more valuable than the 2.0T; much more than 18% I would guess.

---

Thank you Dave , that will definitely help me in the negotiations process

If you are willing to provide the VINs for the cars, there may be 'history' of them on early S that might be helpful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mac73s

If you are willing to provide the VINs for the cars, there may be 'history' of them on early S that might be helpful.

---

I have all data and history , thank you ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

I have all data and history , thank you ;-)

---

And have you checked if they were discussed here?
Someone who sells sometime has some kind of memory loss...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

I have all data and history , thank you ;-)

---

What, you don't trust them to only help with the research of the car by providing the VIN? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neilk

What, you don't trust them to only help with the research of the car by providing the VIN? :D

---

I suspect that he doesn’t want to get sniped and lose either car. Weakens his negotiating leverage if suddenly another shopper joins the party.
Can’t say I blame him at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

I suspect that he doesn’t want to get sniped and lose either car. Weakens his negotiating leverage if suddenly another shopper joins the party.
Can’t say I blame him at all.

---

:-), ;-)................right you are , besides all info I have is certified.

OP can always research the VIN here himself -- he doesn't need to post it to find out what is here!

Such intrigue....we're only trying to be helpful. I sold a 70-S (full nut and bolt restoration) in the early summer of this year....if the SN ends in 0237 you might want to reach out to me. Like you, I thought I had done a full 'data and history' check. Oh man, do I have a story. Unlike the guys who misrepresented it to me, I made full disclosure when I sold it after learning the ugly truth. At that point, I lost any control about how the next guy/dealer would represent it....hence my suggestion to provide the VIN on the chance it could be the same car.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mac73s

Such intrigue....we're only trying to be helpful. I sold a 70-S (full nut and bolt restoration) in the early summer of this year....if the SN ends in 0237 you might want to reach out to me. Like you, I thought I had done a full 'data and history' check. Oh man, do I have a story. Unlike the guys who misrepresented it to me, I made full disclosure when I sold it after learning the ugly truth. At that point, I lost any control about how the next guy/dealer would represent it....hence my suggestion to provide the VIN on the chance it could be the same car.

---

Not that number Mac. I am not at the stage of verfiying the certified VIN/engine/gearbox/body numbers that I have seen and matched with Kardex as yet, I just wished to know if , having these two models in an identical state, which one is the better of the two. That is all . I feel that all the intrigue is being caused by members who happen to hit on this very simple and plain post .

“Identical state”.

Fool’s errand to believe that. Absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

“Identical state”.

Fool’s errand to believe that. Absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

---

oh all right then, lets say very similar :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

oh all right then, lets say very similar :-)

---

Sorry; the sceptic in me doesn’t believe that either.

I guess I may be a little skeptical like Frank ; very few cars are restored to perfection - that's a big adjective .

Hard to compare the 911T and the 911S. The S with that exhilarating rush to 7300 rpm and the 911T (tame) where you have the engine fade off at 6000 rpm. easy choice in my book. Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raspy2point2

Hard to compare the 911T and the 911S. The S with that exhilarating rush to 7300 rpm and the 911T (tame) where you have the engine fade off at 6000 rpm. easy choice in my book. Chris

---

Thank you Raspy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richy

I guess I may be a little skeptical like Frank ; very few cars are restored to perfection - that's a big adjective .

---

Believe me sir, these two are very close to what you describe as "to perfection"

May I add that the 1969, is the last of the SWB 2.0 .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

Believe me sir, these two are very close to what you describe as "to perfection"

---

Sorry for joining in in this topic, but what I've learned in a couple of years on this forum and being involved with classic Cars now for 30+ years (and not owning a pre 73 Porsche) is that I don't know shit about them.
So I am just doubting how would you be able to tell a perfect restoration from one that may be very good craftsmanship but wrong in a lot of aspects.
So you can have a car that has "perfect" paint "perfect" Brightwork "perfect" interior and so on but the car as a whole is far from perfect because details are wrong and they're not "as bad as new".
Here are a lot of

Quote:

---

anal retentive

---

guys who will pick apart any perfect craftsmanship that has been done to a car restored by somebody that hasn't had the experinece of restoring these cars for 20 or more years. When talking of perfect we're talking gloss rates of semi matte black and so on...
I simply mean If you can't even tell a model/year from a VIN you have not even the hint of an idea of the pitfalls. So before doing any purchase get (pay) somebody who knows what he's doing to do a proper PPI.
Just my 2 Cents

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uai

Sorry for joining in in this topic, but what I've learned in a couple of years on this forum and being involved with classic Cars now for 30+ years (and not owning a pre 73 Porsche) is that I don't know shit about them.
So I am just doubting how would you be able to tell a perfect restoration from one that may be very good but wrong in a lot of aspects.
So you can have a car that has "perfect" paint "perfect" Brightwork "perfect" interior and so on but the car as a whole is far from perfect because details are wrong and they're not "as bad as new".
Here are a lot of guys who will pick apart any perfect craftsmanship that has been done to a car restored by somebody that hasn't had the experinece of restoring these cars for 20 or more years.
I simply mean If you can't even tell a model/year from a VIN you have not even the hint of an idea of the pitfalls. So before doing any purchase get (pay) somebody who knows what he's doing to do a proper PPI.
Just my 0.02 Cents

---

Dear Sir,
I thank you for your answer from the heart.
It seems many members here like to jump to conclusions.
1. I did not say that the number I provided was a Vin # , the answers to my question would show the level of knowledge to my question. In fact I managed to get one very informative answer from a very concise person with different models and dates.
2. Who told you that I do not know about the pitfalls of a restoration ??? And who told you that the cars have not been done by experienced experts in Europe ?, one in France and one in Germany ( remember Porsche was born in Europe )
3. Who told you that I am not taking a marque expert with me to visit these cars first on a lifter , then back on the ground and taking off all carpets from the car ?
4. Who told you that all details in the car's interiors are not being scrutinised by this team of experts ?

To pass the time and ponder my decision I come here to hear what you experts have to say on the subject. That is all , and of course, members here can choose to ignore my posts. But please those who do not choose to ignore my posts , please treat me with the respect of someone who intends to spend an awful lot of money to buy the finest example of a pre- bumper era car that you all love so much

Thank you

To answer to your original question, a 1970 2.2 S seems much more interesting to me than a 1969 2.0 T.

1969 2.0 S vs 1970 2.2 S would be much more difficult ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

May I add that the 1969, is the last of the SWB 2.0 .

---

If it's a true 69 it's the first year of the LWB. 68 was the last year of the SWB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scott72

If it's a true 69 it's the first year of the LWB. 68 was the last year of the SWB.

---

wrong date by me, its a 68 911 with no T L or S

Nothing but glad tidings and great joy toward Bowzer in his quest for perfection but there are a thousand details in regard to a restoration. Even top Parade winners enjoy differences in interpretation between them; some of them not so slight. (And then to complicate things, throw in intrinsic design and production differences between SWB and LWB!)

Bowzer, please do us a huge solid; once you leave your world of delirium and finally purchase a car post lots of detailed pics of both cars so that we can judge. I think it's the least you can do in return for the charity extended by members of this community who have been so willing to help with your quandary.

If you are going to drive the car, go for the 70S, if it's going to sit in a collection, it doesn't matter.
Although the car was originally built in Germany, I think you will find that we are notoriously pickier on this side of the Atlantic.
Most Porsches that lived on that side rotted away long ago, or been in the hands of the Almera's clients.
You also don't have the PCA :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Nothing but glad tidings and great joy toward Bowzer in his quest for perfection but there are a thousand details in regard to a restoration. Even top Parade winners enjoy differences in interpretation between them; some of them not so slight. (And then to complicate things, throw in intrinsic design and production differences between SWB and LWB!)

Bowzer, please do us a huge solid; once you leave your world of delirium and finally purchase a car post lots of detailed pics of both cars so that we can judge. I think it's the least you can do in return for the charity extended by members of this community who have been so willing to help with your quandary.

---

Kind Mr. Frank Beck,

You will only see pictures of the car that I will buy.
As you know it is not, 1. kind to place pictures of details of other people's property on the internet, and 2, It is illegal in my country.
Therefore, why don't you just be so kind as to answer a simple question ?
Maybe I shall rephrase it to make it even more simple.
If one had to choose as an investment car, with an fortnightly drive in the dry to keep it on it's toes, from two fully restored cars ( as per best procedures possible , by renowned Porsche specialists in their respective countries) which would be the best one to go for , me being a novice ?
1) being a 911 s 2.2 year of manufacture 1970 or
2) being a 911 SWB ( US CAR ) 2.0 year of manufacture 1968
They are both matching numbers and colours
Maybe you can be even more kind by answering this simple question (by a new member) instead of going into details which only contracted experts on site can determine.
My quest is not perfection , but trying to make the best buy possible since it will be my last in a collection of three special cars
Again, I thank you

Thank you

+! to @RSTarga

All my cars are drivers first, collectibles second. For me, the better car is the "S".

As a collectible, either one is great. If the wheelbases are actually different (and we won't know for sure until you post the VIN), there are good arguments for both cars given that the conditions are the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RSTarga

If you are going to drive the car, go for the 70S, if it's going to sit in a collection, it doesn't matter.
Although the car was originally built in Germany, I think you will find that we are notoriously pickier on this side of the Atlantic.
Most Porsches that lived on that side rotted away long ago, or been in the hands of the Almera's clients.
You also don't have the PCA :)

---

Thank you RSTarga

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uptheorg

+! to @RSTarga

All my cars are drivers first, collectibles second. For me, the better car is the "S".

As a collectible, either one is great. If the wheelbases are actually different (and we won't know for sure until you post the VIN), there are good arguments for both cars given that the conditions are the same.

---

Thank you Uptheorg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 928cs

To answer to your original question, a 1970 2.2 S seems much more interesting to me than a 1969 2.0 T.

1969 2.0 S vs 1970 2.2 S would be much more difficult ;)

---

Thank you 928cs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

wrong date by me, its a 68 911 with no T L or S

---

SWB '68 Normale 130 hp? Is the crankcase aluminium or mag? For many people, the former is more desirable.

Quote:

---

For me, the better car is the "S".

---

I agree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

Kind Mr. Frank Beck,

You will only see pictures of the car that I will buy.
As you know it is not, 1. kind to place pictures of details of other people's property on the internet, and 2, It is illegal in my country.
Therefore, why don't you just be so kind as to answer a simple question ?
Maybe I shall rephrase it to make it even more simple.
If one had to choose as an investment car, with an fortnightly drive in the dry to keep it on it's toes, from two fully restored cars ( as per best procedures possible , by renowned Porsche specialists in their respective countries) which would be the best one to go for , me being a novice ?
1) being a 911 s 2.2 year of manufacture 1970 or
2) being a 911 SWB ( US CAR ) 2.0 year of manufacture 1968
They are both matching numbers and colours
Maybe you can be even more kind by answering this simple question (by a new member) instead of going into details which only contracted experts on site can determine.
My quest is not perfection , but trying to make the best buy possible since it will be my last in a collection of three special cars
Again, I thank you

Thank you

---

Although there is market data available, your challenge to us is subjective and will come down to opinion. Unless I'm mistaking the question you're asking which model has the most upside in terms of enjoyment and future appreciation. A non S SWB coupe vs. a 2.2S coupe.
HANDS DOWN a proper 2.2S coupe is one of the most sought after and delightfully unusual 911s ever built.

There's no contest here whatsoever in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue72s

SWB '68 Normale 130 hp? Is the crankcase aluminium or mag? For many people, the former is more desirable.



I agree.

---

1968 911 Coupe 5-speed, engine type 901.14, transmission type 902.1 with normal aluminium crankcase

Thank you

901.14 is USA spec.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue72s

901.14 is USA spec.

---

Yes thank you, I mentioned this before somewhere . It was stored for 25yrs and bought into Europe prior to full restoration

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

1968 911 Coupe 5-speed, engine type 901.14, transmission type 902.1 with normal aluminium crankcase

Thank you

---

So this exquisite and completely accurate restoration performed by a renowned Porsche expert included leaving on the butt-ugly U.S. spec reflectors. And the equally obnoxious air pump system?

If not then it's not an accurate restoration.

If so; why on earth would you even consider it? '68 U.S. 911 does not have a favorable following.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Although there is market data available, your challenge to us is subjective and will come down to opinion. Unless I'm mistaking the question you're asking which model has the most upside in terms of enjoyment and future appreciation. A non S SWB coupe vs. a 2.2S coupe.
HANDS DOWN a proper 2.2S coupe is one of the most sought after and delightfully unusual 911s ever built.

There's no contest here whatsoever in my opinion.

---

Thank you very, very much Mr Beck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

So this exquisite and completely accurate restoration performed by a renowned Porsche expert included leaving on the butt-ugly U.S. spec reflectors. And the equally obnoxious air pump system?

If not then it's not an accurate restoration.

If so; why on earth would you even consider it? '68 U.S. 911 does not have a favorable following.

---

Negotiations my dear friend, negotiations

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

'68 U.S. 911 does not have a favorable following.

---

don't make this personal Frank. There ARE people who like sportos and those who drool over sepia brown targas. I happen to enjoy my '68.

As to bowzer's 'conflict' - the 2.2S wins - hands down. unless something shady is up, like the wrong engine or something

Agreed - 70S wins in my book. As previous owner of a 65 and current owner of a 69S, from a drivers perspective the LWB S wins hands down. I would also think for an investment perspective a 70S trumps a 68 normal.

Impossible to definitely advise without knowing the colors of the two cars, but I'd probably go with the larger engine and use it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jules Dielen

don't make this personal Frank. There ARE people who like sportos and those who drool over sepia brown targas. I happen to enjoy my '68.

As to bowzer's 'conflict' - the 2.2S wins - hands down.

---

Thank you Jules , and thanks to some people here who have come up with a bit of a straightforward answer to my unlearned dilemma, it seems an easier choice now as to which will be my number 1 , and there is also another S to consider too a beautiful very original us car of 1969 2.0s .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ejboyd5

Impossible to definitely advise without knowing the colors of the two cars, but I'd probably go with the larger engine and use it.

---

Thank you EJ , blood orange , and chocolate brown

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

Thank you EJ , blood orange , and chocolate brown

---

Wait...

What?




Bowzer, you are a master at prolonging drama!

Frank is correct. Even being a "70's" color, brown is going to be polarizing and therefore will could affect market value.

Apparently “stool sample” is a no-no.


Bowzer, please tell me it’s Sepia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Apparently “stool sample” is a no-no.


Bowzer, please tell me it’s Sepia.

---

looks gorgeous with chrome and gold lettering on the back........seats are beige

"gorgeous"?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

"gorgeous"?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

---

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder Frank , but I still dare say , no matter what .................The chocolate brown with chrome and the gold lettering, tan interiors , does look stunning in the metal

Tangerine!

As the owner of a '69T (far from original...)

I would recommend the S.

I've spent my time owning my T trying to upgrade it. It had unvented brakes, literally the worst 6cyl engine Porsche ever made, and stripped down gauging in the cockpit. I was fortunate in that mine came with the "comfort" group, which mysteriously came with the full E or S gauge package. I still have strange T leftovers, like 14" fuchs that I wouldn't give to my worst enemy. (Try finding good tyres for a 14" rim!)

If the price was even close to the same, I'd go for the S every time. If I had three choices, or fell into a time machine that gave me the power to return to 1970 for a day, I'd choose an E every time. Almost all of the power, almost all of the driveability, all of the comforts: I believe the E is simply the perfect 911. However, in your situation, the S is closer to that perfection than the T.

Go for the 2.2S ! I can‘t say anything about the T but owning a 70‘ 2.2S I can say it‘s great fun to drive

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel911T

As the owner of a '69T (far from original...)

I would recommend the S.

I've spent my time owning my T trying to upgrade it. It had unvented brakes, literally the worst 6cyl engine Porsche ever made, and stripped down gauging in the cockpit. I was fortunate in that mine came with the "comfort" group, which mysteriously came with the full E or S gauge package. I still have strange T leftovers, like 14" fuchs that I wouldn't give to my worst enemy. (Try finding good tyres for a 14" rim!)

If the price was even close to the same, I'd go for the S every time. If I had three choices, or fell into a time machine that gave me the power to return to 1970 for a day, I'd choose an E every time. Almost all of the power, almost all of the driveability, all of the comforts: I believe the E is simply the perfect 911. However, in your situation, the S is closer to that perfection than the T.

---

Thank you Daniel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oliver-911

Go for the 2.2S ! I can‘t say anything about the T but owning a 70‘ 2.2S I can say it‘s great fun to drive

---

Thank you Oliver , is yours for sale :-) ?

... :confused: confused, to say the least ... would anybody really have a doubt between a T and a S? C'mon, buy it, drive it and show us some pics, otherwise all that is just a surrealistic post ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtxIWk0W4AELtbi.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

Thank you Oliver , is yours for sale :-) ?

---

If you want to own two 2.2S anytime, your call :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biancaneve

... :confused: confused, to say the least ... would anybody really have a doubt between a T and a S? C'mon, buy it, drive it and show us some pics, otherwise all that is just a surrealistic post ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtxIWk0W4AELtbi.jpg

---

The confusion has disappeared now ( please understand I am a novice with these cars ) I thought a SWB had more status being the first model , like all other special cars . Thank you Biancaneve

You read that right. The '69 is the first year for LWB.

The T drives nicely, but the 70 S is almost identical in terms of body and suspension, but somehow much more special. You'll not regret passing on the T, or buying the S - and the more you learn, the more you'll understand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel911T

You read that right. The '69 is the first year for LWB.

The T drives nicely, but the 70 S is almost identical in terms of body and suspension, but somehow much more special. You'll not regret passing on the T, or buying the S - and the more you learn, the more you'll understand.

---

Thank you Daniel

It all depends on how you drive. I've had customers who think they want an 'S', then when you ride with them they're shifting at 3,000 and using half throttle. (and complaining about lack of performance) If that is your driving style the 'T' will be all you need. Not that you always have to drive with your hair on fire, but if you're the guy who when I take them for a demo ride in my 'S' express amazement that 7000 RPM is actually used,,,,you probably will enjoy a 'T' more.

Ed,
Talk about "Low T".

Now that you've set the table I cannot fathom how Bowzer could even admit that he'd rather have a T.


Your story reminds me of a test drive I was on with an old customer the other day in her Jetta. She was in 4th gear by the time we hit 35mph. And the 993 customer who complained of a "rattle" while driving only in the city. I drove it several times and it showed no symptoms. Finally had him get behind the wheel. He would drive to work at 40 mph in 5th gear!

. . . very few aren't

So. If you're 'collecting'? --- think about when you'd ever see a car like this . . .

http://www.porsport.com/1968_911_time_capsule

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...psule-Reloaded!



Enjoy your choices




(Not mine)




......................

Thank you Edmayo

Thank you Ranger

Buy both, use them for a while to see which one you like better and sell the other. If they are as you describe, you won't lose money.

hairline cross fixed on the S .................................................. .........................should fly out to see it soon ( with my expert )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

hairline cross fixed on the S .................................................. .........................should fly out to see it soon ( with my expert )

---

Seeking clarification: You’re describing it as perfect but you haven’t seen it? Assuming you had an expert pour over it in person?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Seeking clarification: You’re describing it as perfect but you haven’t seen it? Assuming you had an expert pour over it in person?

---

Could it be otherwise ? .....Also, one should bare in mind that I live on an Island of 122 Miles square , we do not have many Classic Porsches on the island, and the ones there are not for sale. Also one cannot fly out to each and every car suggested by my scouts. There needs to be a sifting of possibilities to 3/4 cars. I have already been to see a silver 2.2s which was a disaster compared to what I wish to buy .

....and for all you hard work in assisting me , I will give you all a preview of what could be the ONE ;-)

....ouch...

Ouch is right.

Missed "perfect" after about 3 seconds.


When anyone offers an "expert" opinion the first question is "what is that person's experience or credentials?"
Did your eyes on the ground mention among other things that the fuel tank color is incorrect? Or that the cooling fan is not even close to original finish?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Ouch is right.

Missed "perfect" after about 3 seconds.


When anyone offers an "expert" opinion the first question is "what is that person's experience or credentials?"
Did your eyes on the ground mention among other things that the fuel tank color is incorrect?

---

Sure , little things like that can be changed in time and of course reflect in the buying price, ......its the incorrigible that counts .......please go on

By your credentials it should have been half a second ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

Sure , little things like that can be changed in time and of course reflect in the buying price, ......its the incorrigible that counts .......please go on

---

Words matter.

You set yourself up for that one when you chose "perfect" instead of "very nice". :)
Please keep the pics coming.



As for my credentials?

I've never used the term "expert" to describe myself. (That I can remember!) I'm simply a guy who's been in the biz for a while and gets to see some cool stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Words matter.

You set yourself up for that one when you chose "perfect" instead of "very nice". :)
Please keep the pics coming.

---

Dear Frank
You want more pictures, and of the two you only spot one imperfection ?
I think this car is great , only on that premise. And dare say................puuuuurrrfect

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

. . . When anyone offers an "expert" opinion the first question is "what is that person's experience or credentials?"
Did your eyes on the ground mention among other things that the fuel tank color is incorrect? Or that the cooling fan is not even close to original finish? . . .

---

Hm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

. . . I have mixed emotions on minutia like this . . . I think the current early Porsche culture has become wound too tight and care more about aesthetic details and less about driving the snot out of the car. I think the Dr. would be shaking his head right now if he could see what's happening . . .

---

So-uuuh . . . what about the latch panel?

;)


.........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LongRanger

Hm





So-uuuh . . . what about the latch panel?

;)


.........

---

Rick,
I'm concerned about you...

When I advertised my 70 coupe I was very clear that it was a "driver". That's as far as it gets from the word "perfect". Why are you so confused?


It's very simple: If a car has "imperfections" then don't use the freaking word "perfect".

Yup ouch refers to the obvious non factory work around the latch area. What year is the car?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

....and for all you hard work in assisting me , I will give you all a preview of what could be the ONE ;-)

---

French registered car, I guess.
Where is it located?

The car looks like a 2.2. Has 14 pin engine harness plug. Fan strap should be black. Fan belt looks wrong, is so loose and up on the pulley half, it's deflecting toward the fan and marking it. Of coarse the silver injection stacks. The front latch panel has the late drain slots. It could be a nice car.

To the island man
Does front and rear end metal work in this car's past still make it perfect to you?

Honest question... Some people define perfect as recent glossy restoration. Others focus on original panels, maintained patina, etc

The rear panels look wavy and gap of rubber to body is tight in middle and then opens more to right and left.
Looks like a solid hit to the rear.
Or is it the camera angle and reflection? Don’t think so

The rear engine mounts and large washers that are yellow zinc instead of being painted black and the fan housing strap that is from a later car are not signs of a perfect restoration to me . What about the engine bay jamb sticker for tire pressure for speeds above 200 km/hr ?

I'm afraid poor Bowzer has retreated to a safe space.

Suddenly he's not thanking everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richy

The rear engine mounts and large washers that are yellow zinc instead of being painted black and the fan housing strap that is from a later car are not signs of a perfect restoration to me . What about the engine bay jamb sticker for tire pressure for speeds above 200 km/hr ?

---

I see a lot of restorations with yellow zinc color rear motor mounts.
Can you please share a photo of what original should look like.
Thanks much

I answered my own question with this image from the 700 mile 1971 911S photographed by Dave Conklin. Black. Curious what the assembly process was as it appears to have been painted over except for the main mounting bolt.

Zed, I don’t think they painted after install. I believe all 3 bolts on that one bracket are yellow, it is just hard to tell in that image.

On the SWB cars the bolts are painted black after install , not painted on LWB cars . Nice picture Zedone , and it also shows the tire air pressure sticker for high speeds .

what are the colors?

Obviously a S model would be more desireable.

But a sweet color 1969T has its place too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Rick,
I'm concerned about you...

When I advertised my 70 coupe I was very clear that it was a "driver". That's as far as it gets from the word "perfect". Why are you so confused?


It's very simple: If a car has "imperfections" then don't use the freaking word "perfect".

---

The discussion here is about a near 50yr old car. To me a car that has survived so much in good hands with slight imperfections here and there ( we are not mentioning the word Concours ) , and these small imperfections can be remedied with a relative small cost when compared to the treasure you can buy , Then , to me the car is perfect . Now if some people think that a Concours car of this standard and saved from all dust and some minor mistakes for 50 yrs can be found on the market, Woaaaahhhhhhhh , please show me one, one that is wiling to come to my garage and join my collection !

Thank you very much tcracing ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gled49

The car looks like a 2.2. Has 14 pin engine harness plug. Fan strap should be black. Fan belt looks wrong, is so loose and up on the pulley half, it's deflecting toward the fan and marking it. Of coarse the silver injection stacks. The front latch panel has the late drain slots. It could be a nice car.

---

Thank you Gled 49

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steve shea

Yup ouch refers to the obvious non factory work around the latch area. What year is the car?

---

1970 Steve

Bowzer,

Have you seen this ad? (no affiliation)

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...tching-numbers

Just checking that I have this right... '68 sepia brown 2.0 Normal or similar condition '70 signal orange 2.2 S + 18%. Is this a trick question?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue72s

Bowzer,

Have you seen this ad? (no affiliation)

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...tching-numbers

---

Hello Blue 72, Thank you
yes I have even spoken with the seller. I am a bit not sure due to the colour of the car , and I think that the price is a bit steep for not being an S

A third car has come to the mix
a SWB 1968 911 L USA car now in Europe , its history says that it was bought from my country Malta imported from the US
I will show you some magic numbers maybe kind people here have any thing to tell about this car .Thank you Attachment 477632Attachment 477633Attachment 477634Attachment 477635

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

Hello Blue 72, Thank you
yes I have even spoken with the seller. I am a bit not sure due to the colour of the car , and I think that the price is a bit steep for not being an S

---

So Sepia Brown is more attractive to you than Ossi Blue?

This thread to me has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous -- what are we talking about? Nobody here seems to know. There is a lot of discussion about semantics and sarcasm, but nobody is learning anything about the cars in question, including the OP Bowzer. He has gotten a few opinions about the original two cars based on scant knowledge and all those opinions seem to agree that an "S" is a better car and rarer, too. Now he is mixing in a short wheelbase car with a long wheelbase car. And it doesn't seem that he has personally inspected any of them!?! He might as well be discussing whether he should buy a late model P-car or a first generation car as far as I am concerned. Sheeesh!:mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uptheorg

This thread to me has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous -- what are we talking about? Nobody here seems to know. There is a lot of discussion about semantics and sarcasm, but nobody is learning anything about the cars in question, including the OP Bowzer. He has gotten a few opinions about the original two cars based on scant knowledge and all those opinions seem to agree that an "S" is a better car and rarer, too. Now he is mixing in a short wheelbase car with a long wheelbase car. And it doesn't seem that he has personally inspected any of them!?! He might as well be discussing whether he should buy a late model P-car or a first generation car as far as I am concerned. Sheeesh!:mad:

---

+1....I'm done with this thread. No good deed (from the early S members who have tried to help) goes unpunished.

What’s most telling is OP’s refusal to be schooled here.

Bowser,
I won’t get sidetracked now with why you continue introducing mutts to an International dog show. (Sorry Jules; a 68 US car is at best a terrier mix.) I’ll take this task on later.

What’s going on with the Signal Orange 2.2S?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

What’s most telling is OP’s refusal to be schooled here.

Bowser,
I won’t get sidetracked now with why you continue introducing mutts to an International dog show. (Sorry Jules; a 68 US car is at best a terrier mix.) I’ll take this task on later.

What’s going on with the Signal Orange 2.2S?

---

ok so let me tell you .......the owner of the signal orange is a 70 yr old man who wishes to part with his car but not making it easy in no way , and here I am venting my frustration with you lot here trying to convince myself there could be some better choice out there ????????, but seems definitely not . I am waiting for a cd showing all steps od the body restoration process. This arrives by mail because its too much to zip down e send by email. Signal orange 2.2s 1970 is still definietly No1 . So after the A R R I V A L of the cd and if all is as promised , I fly to the car and check it out with my assistant who breathes , sleeps and eats Porsche 911.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

What’s most telling is OP’s refusal to be schooled here.

Bowser,
I won’t get sidetracked now with why you continue introducing mutts to an International dog show. (Sorry Jules; a 68 US car is at best a terrier mix.) I’ll take this task on later.

What’s going on with the Signal Orange 2.2S?

---

did manage to get you salivate over the Signal orange 2.2s , ............so am I until I go for the visit ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uptheorg

This thread to me has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous -- what are we talking about? Nobody here seems to know. There is a lot of discussion about semantics and sarcasm, but nobody is learning anything about the cars in question, including the OP Bowzer. He has gotten a few opinions about the original two cars based on scant knowledge and all those opinions seem to agree that an "S" is a better car and rarer, too. Now he is mixing in a short wheelbase car with a long wheelbase car. And it doesn't seem that he has personally inspected any of them!?! He might as well be discussing whether he should buy a late model P-car or a first generation car as far as I am concerned. Sheeesh!:mad:

---

I'm sorry if I have irritated you in any way , it was not my intention, but some learned members here ( in the 911 matter ) tend to love taking the mickey out of people who know nothing about the matter, and come here for advise , so I needed to throw some confusion in the room :-(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mac73s

+1....I'm done with this thread. No good deed (from the early S members who have tried to help) goes unpunished.

---

mac 73, do rest assured that your good deeds have all been noted , just like all other well meaning senior members.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

did manage to get you salivate over the Signal orange 2.2s , ............so am I until I go for the visit ;-)

---

I like you Bowzer.

Much like I enjoy George Castanza. There’s something mildly entertaining about watching a delusional person be their own worst enemy. You’re like the guy who thinks he only let a fart but actually crapped his pants.

I think you’re mistaking my disbelief with drool.

Unless the price is under $150k I’m not impressed with the Signal Orange car; not based on the current pics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

What’s most telling is OP’s refusal to be schooled here.

Bowser,
I won’t get sidetracked now with why you continue introducing mutts to an International dog show. (Sorry Jules; a 68 US car is at best a terrier mix.) I’ll take this task on later.

What’s going on with the Signal Orange 2.2S?

---

I like the pigeon Frank :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

I like you Bowzer.

Much like I enjoy George Castanza. There’s something mildly entertaining about watching a delusional person be their own worst enemy. You’re like the guy who thinks he only let a fart but actually crapped his pants.

I think you’re mistaking my disbelief with drool.

Unless the price is under $150k I’m not impressed with the Signal Orange car; not based on the current pics.

---

Well , the thing is , if you were proposing alternatives , yes you would be perfectly right .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by H-viken

I like the pigeon Frank :)

---

Still waiting for the grand reveal of The Peacock.

What's wrong with this?

http://early911specialist.com/new-pr...3-porsche-911s

Great provenance and a trustworthy seller currently representing the car.
And if you say the color doesn't strike your fancy then we all know you're a fraud. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

What's wrong with this?

http://early911specialist.com/new-pr...3-porsche-911s

Great provenance and a trustworthy seller currently representing the car.
And if you say the color doesn't strike your fancy then we all know you're a fraud. ;)

---

Would love to know how being a fraud here benefits me but , well never know how you lads across the lake think ;-)
The car looks great but I have a problem with the manufacture date ....it needs to be a 50 yr old car or latest 49 ( and will need to store it for a year overseas )
In Malta a classic car that is not 50 yrs old will need to pay an import tax of 37% of the value + another 10% tax due to it coming from outside the EU. Those are the laws and that's too much for my pockets :-( ........But thanks anyway seems to be a great car , although lighter greens are not my favourites , a forrest green would have been more to my liking

Sarcasm has been around a very long time...

Quote:

---

The car looks great but I have a problem with the manufacture date ....it needs to be a 50 yr old car or latest 49 ( and will need to store it for a year overseas )
In Malta a classic car that is not 50 yrs old will need to pay an import tax of 37% of the value + another 10% tax due to it coming from outside the EU. Those are the laws and that's too much for my pockets :-( ........But thanks anyway seems to be a great car , although lighter greens are not my favourites , a forrest green would have been more to my liking

---

Great reason to pass.


Awesome Chuck: So “Jews” is a dirty or controversial word?
Seriously: Read the Bible. The New Testament has some wonderful examples of sarcasm by Hebrew writers.
Or was it “Brit” or “Yank” that was offensive?

I've been away for a few days and the deal has not been sealed yet? I am surprised ... ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biancaneve

I've been away for a few days and the deal has not been sealed yet? I am surprised ... ;)

---

.................still waiting, believe it or not, for the CD with all files of car plus restoration step by step pictures, wait for this.......by post :-( , and don't tell me there are zip file programs and emails nowadays ...............I know , but the seller does not seem to accept this sort of technology . Having received this , will visit in the metal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

In Malta

---

Do you prefer LHD even though the traffic there drives on the left side of the road as in the UK?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue72s

Do you prefer LHD even though the traffic there drives on the left side of the road as in the UK?

---

Most definitely Blue , all my classic cars are left handers , in my opinion all cars ( except for the British ones ) were initially designed to be that way. I am sure something goes amiss when they adapted them to RHD. And to tell you how I really feel about it , the gear lever feels right being used with the right hand.

OK, no worries.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

a forrest green would have been more to my liking

---

I'd buy this if I was looking for a LHD:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-on-my-70-911s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue72s

OK, no worries.



I'd buy this if I was looking for a LHD:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-on-my-70-911s

---

I've seen that car and to tell you how I feel about it ( love the colour ) it would only be worth doing up for me, when buying it for € 60,000 , but it seems that Frank beck has already advised the seller that he will get much more than that .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

I've seen that car and to tell you how I feel about it ( love the colour ) it would only be worth doing up for me, when buying it for € 60,000 , but it seems that Frank beck has already advised the seller that he will get much more than that .

---

Now you're just putting words in my mouth... never mentioned "much more". Just said "more than the best offer here". Unless there's rust or some major collision damage in its past, my estimation is somewhere between Alan and Bryce. If you bid $68k in the silent auction I would say you need to bump up a bit.

I haven't read all the comments on this thread, but citing the percent difference between the two cars only tells part of the story. The absolute prices would be far more helpful. I get the impression the T may be way above market value, but impossible to know, given the lack of an absolute number.

In the meantime, I have been offered ( and this is already in Malta ) a 1972 2.4T oil- flap in immaculate condition but not in the original colour of Chocolate Brown. It has been resprayed in Cream colour.
My question to you all is : Which car holds the more value ? A 1970 2.2 s in Signal Orange , or a 1972 2.4T oil-flap and in the original colour of Chocolate Brown ?
Thank you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

My question to you all is : Which car holds the more value ? A 1970 2.2 s in Signal Orange , or a 1972 2.4T oil-flap and in the original colour of Chocolate Brown ?
Thank you

---

Without sounding like a broken record, as stated already in this thread:
As long as you are not over paying for either; unless a 'T' has some unique provenance, an 'S' will always be the better investment.

Don't you have an "assistant who breathes , sleeps and eats Porsche 911." that would be able to tell you that :confused::confused: :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

In the meantime, I have been offered ( and this is already in Malta ) a 1972 2.4T oil- flap in immaculate condition but not in the original colour of Chocolate Brown. It has been resprayed in Cream colour.
My question to you all is : Which car holds the more value ? A 1970 2.2 s in Signal Orange , or a 1972 2.4T oil-flap and in the original colour of Chocolate Brown ?
Thank you

---

You are asking for personal opinions from strangers. The only one that matters is you. Personally I love brown cars, but there are guys (mostly from Arizona) that hate them. What difference does that make?. I can say that a 72 is probably a more collectable car than the 70 for nothing more than the oil door. 20 years ago it was just the opposite and for the same reason.
Chocolate brown? You must mean Sepia Brown. Who knows what the next 20 years will bring.

Regards

Jim

"Chocolate Brown" = Sepia Brown = Inky Secretion of a Cuttlefish = Turd Brown = diminished resale value.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by radiocure

Don't you have an "assistant who breathes , sleeps and eats Porsche 911." that would be able to tell you that :confused::confused: :confused:

---

He wants me to go for the 1972 T oil flap because he says it is more valuable and rare , I'm not sure , that it why I come to this forum

Thanks Frank ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

"Chocolate Brown" = Sepia Brown = Inky Secretion of a Cuttlefish = Turd Brown = diminished resale value.

---

Sepia Brown = State Color of Arizona?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Breazeale

You are asking for personal opinions from strangers. The only one that matters is you. Personally I love brown cars, but there are guys (mostly from Arizona) that hate them. What difference does that make?. I can say that a 72 is probably a more collectable car than the 70 for nothing more than the oil door. 20 years ago it was just the opposite and for the same reason.
Chocolate brown? You must mean Sepia Brown. Who knows what the next 20 years will bring.

Regards

Jim

---

Thank you Jim

There you go , three different persons and practically 3 different answers , maybe now you can all understand my confused state as a novice

The key here is to pay no attention to anyone else, and don't worry about future value. Buy the car that you like, the one that excites you. If you aren't buying one of these because the car makes you happy, you are buying for the wrong reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arne

The key here is to pay no attention to anyone else, and don't worry about future value. Buy the car that you like, the one that excites you. If you aren't buying one of these because the car makes you happy, you are buying for the wrong reasons.

---

That is great advice for someone who doesn’t give a ratz as about what others think but 14 pages says Bowzer ain’t that guy.


I’ve owned/own 2 Sepia S cars.

One is Bahia Red and the other is Silver Metallic.

Although I agree with him, I am amazed that Frank abhors brown, living in Arizona. Of course maybe because he would just blend in with the surroundings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RSTarga

Although I agree with him, I am amazed that Frank abhors brown, living in Arizona. Of course maybe because he would just blend in with the surroundings.

---

David,

And it’s not just me; obviously you and many buyers feel the same way. I would really LOVE to be convinced that it would be a great idea to go back to Sepia on my 71S coupe but my constitution won’t allow it.

Bowzer,
If you purchase a ‘72 won’t you need to store for 3 years to avoid the penalty? Or are you figuring it will be in the body shop for 3 years while it’s going back to turd color?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

That is great advice for someone who doesn’t give a ratz as about what others think but 14 pages says Bowzer ain’t that guy.

---

I'm sure you are correct, Frank. The mere fact of starting this thread pointed that out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Bowzer,
If you purchase a ‘72 won’t you need to store for 3 years to avoid the penalty? Or are you figuring it will be in the body shop for 3 years while it’s going back to turd color?

---

You don't pay attention frank , I said the car was already on the island ;-) needs no importing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

You don't pay attention frank , I said the car was already on the island ;-) needs no importing

---

Fair enough.

So would you have it painted on the island?

If its the one I will buy ( at the moment in Position 2 after the 70 2.2 s ) , yes we have great paint shops in Malta .

Oh well , the S turned out to be a real Frankenstein :-(

Bowser
My concern for you is that after your selected experts were not able to properly evaluate and advise you of important negative conditions of the cars you were considering.
There are experts on this site from around the world who will provide some viable purchase options.
In addition they will outline the critical PPI aspects needed leading you to happy purchase.
If an S is your preferred car then members will happily post viable purchase options and the group will gladly scrutinize cars being considered and points of concerns.
Keep us updated with open disclosure of cars being considered.
Frank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 71gold

Bowser
My concern for you is that after your selected experts were not able to properly evaluate and advise you of important negative conditions of the cars you were considering.
There are experts on this site from around the world who will provide some viable purchase options.
In addition they will outline the critical PPI aspects needed leading you to happy purchase.
If an S is your preferred car then members will happily post viable purchase options and the group will gladly scrutinize cars being considered and points of concerns.
Keep us updated with open disclosure of cars being considered.
Frank

---

Thank you Frank,
The problem is that I am in Malta and no such cars are for sale here.
I am open to any suggestions of cars to consider . What I am looking for is a Coupe' 2.0s or a 2.2s with year of manufacture up to latest December 1970.
I have never engaged any experts as such , what I do till now is show my options to a friend of mine who is really a fanatic of early 911's
All cars who's owners or sellers I have approached are cars which are on sale on the internet.
Nobody has ever misguided me . The small problem which I have encountered here ( and I repeat, it is a very small problem ) is that I felt a slight overwhelming sensation on this page that I was stupid and new nothing about early 911's . Yes of course I am ignorant in this matter and that is why I came here to learn about the many pitfalls I might encounter before I decide on a car that I will like. Some have said that I refuse to be schooled , but believe me I am doing a great schooling here and I am beginning to know the cars bit by bit and am at a much situation than when I started some weeks ago.
Yes of course I am open to everyone's help especially when my position in the world map limits me quite a bit , but thank God for internet always an email away ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 71gold

Bowser
My concern for you is that after your selected experts were not able to properly evaluate and advise you of important negative conditions of the cars you were considering.
There are experts on this site from around the world who will provide some viable purchase options.
In addition they will outline the critical PPI aspects needed leading you to happy purchase.
If an S is your preferred car then members will happily post viable purchase options and the group will gladly scrutinize cars being considered and points of concerns.
Keep us updated with open disclosure of cars being considered.
Frank

---

Hello again Frank,
I am in fact interested in another S located in Starnberg Germany , maybe someone can help me with it ???
Thank you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

That is all , and of course, members here can choose to ignore my posts.

---

Done.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

Thank you Frank,
The problem is that I am in Malta and no such cars are for sale here.
I am open to any suggestions of cars to consider . What I am looking for is a Coupe' 2.0s or a 2.2s with year of manufacture up to latest December 1970.
I have never engaged any experts as such , what I do till now is show my options to a friend of mine who is really a fanatic of early 911's
All cars who's owners or sellers I have approached are cars which are on sale on the internet.
Nobody has ever misguided me . The small problem which I have encountered here ( and I repeat, it is a very small problem ) is that I felt a slight overwhelming sensation on this page that I was stupid and new nothing about early 911's . Yes of course I am ignorant in this matter and that is why I came here to learn about the many pitfalls I might encounter before I decide on a car that I will like. Some have said that I refuse to be schooled , but believe me I am doing a great schooling here and I am beginning to know the cars bit by bit and am at a much situation than when I started some weeks ago.
Yes of course I am open to everyone's help especially when my position in the world map limits me quite a bit , but thank God for internet always an email away ;-)

---

This should have been your first post in the thread.

These cars can be overwhelming to evaluate for purchase and it is very easy to get screwed given what it takes to restore one properly, or on the flip side, how easy it is to misrepresent one with an email exchange or online ad.

As you look for a new purchase, do you have a budget? Are you trying to buy from the EU? Would you consider cars in the US?
What is your intended use for the car? Garage queen, convert to a rally car, drive on Sundays, enter into concours, just pull up a chair and look at it?
There's no wrong answers to these questions, I think if you explain what you want you will get good advice from this community.

Marcus, you can still buy my 2.2 S, as mentioned it’s not matching numbers but in perfect condition !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

Hello all,

I am considering two cars , one a 2.2S MY 1970, and the other 2.0T MY 1969 .
They are both with history and backing service invoices and both with a documented restoration to perfection.

The 1970 2.2S is at a price of 18% more than the 1969 2.0T

With the difference in price not being a huge issue ( considering the purchase of a car for collection ) what would be the best choice if there was one ?

I thank you all for your help in answering .
I will purposely not mention the colours not to get any biased answers , they are both in gorgeous colours and trims inside.

---

we went from a 'documented restoration to perfection' to a frankenstein. What happened to the documentation??


Never been to Malta, so i do not know how many Porsche specialty shops there are on the island to get a proper look at it in terms of originality etc.

Since Malta is a member of the EU, are you allowed to import a car from any EU member without paying duties?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowzer

. . . The small problem which I have encountered here ( and I repeat, it is a very small problem ) is that I felt a slight overwhelming sensation on this page that I was stupid and new nothing about early 911's . . .

---

If you're not in a hurry, then you might wanna take some time to go through the site, maybe soak-up some stuff. There are some pretty-interesting threads + cars, here, like . . .

Original cars (well . . . mostly, anyway) . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-original-cars

Rare Options . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-Early-Options

Almost Everything You'd Wanna Know About the '69S . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...t=makes+unique
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...hlight=storied

Prolly the Ultimate '70 S Restoration . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-of-a-RHD-2-2S


And I would take my time

Prices have been softening for the last few years, and --- in my opinion . . .

. . . we're heading into a pretty sharp adjustment economically, so . . .



. . . more opportunities coming


....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

That is great advice for someone who doesn’t give a ratz as about what others think but 14 pages says Bowzer ain’t that guy.


I’ve owned/own 2 Sepia S cars.

One is Bahia Red and the other is Silver Metallic.

---

Now THIS is a witty well written post, without being offensive!. Made me chuckle. This is the Frank I want to read!

I've never sought out a 'restored' anything. Instead, I've done the opposite . . . and very deliberately sought-out the tired/somewhat tatty/mildly-neglected Original Gangsters --- or, at-the-very-least, something that was as close to un-restored, as possible . . .

. . . or affordable

As you'll find out, the level of effort + investment + knowledge required to execute a restoration properly is considerable. And --- in my experience . . . something always gets missed/compromised/'improved'

For me, tidying-up an 'un-restored' car meant that I got to see all the nonsense inflicted on it first-hand . . . prolly 'cause I was the one doing it. Cheaper, too = I get to pay-as-I-go

I mean, I actually drive the Nasty Thing . . .

;)



. . . something that will be changing drastically . . .


. . . + sooner-vs-later, too, I'm afraid




.............

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rower

Now THIS is a witty well written post, without being offensive!. Made me chuckle. This is the Frank I want to read!

---

Not so sure...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beh911

This should have been your first post in the thread.

These cars can be overwhelming to evaluate for purchase and it is very easy to get screwed given what it takes to restore one properly, or on the flip side, how easy it is to misrepresent one with an email exchange or online ad.

As you look for a new purchase, do you have a budget? Are you trying to buy from the EU? Would you consider cars in the US?
What is your intended use for the car? Garage queen, convert to a rally car, drive on Sundays, enter into concours, just pull up a chair and look at it?
There's no wrong answers to these questions, I think if you explain what you want you will get good advice from this community.

---

Thank you beh911
Basically I am looking for a car from the EU ( preferably an S ) for Sunday drive, garage queen and possible concours . luckily in my country there is plenty of sunshine and never any snow , so no salt on the roads. would love a yom 69/70 and even considering a 2.4s oil flap .....budget depending on the car , possibly a good original. Most definitely a matching numbers car in the original colour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jules Dielen

we went from a 'documented restoration to perfection' to a frankenstein. What happened to the documentation??


Never been to Malta, so i do not know how many Porsche specialty shops there are on the island to get a proper look at it in terms of originality etc.

---

Jules, Documentation was 915 pictures

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oliver-911

Marcus, you can still buy my 2.2 S, as mentioned it’s not matching numbers but in perfect condition !

---

Thank you Oliver for your offer , but I don't buy special cars when they are not matching numbers :-(

My possible new find ;-)Attachment 478448

But that is a 1972

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RSTarga

But that is a 1972

---

Yes it is, probably with the few good cars available , I am also considering that I will have to suffer a three year storage out of my country. After all, I have been told that this model is the finest of them all .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LongRanger

I've never sought out a 'restored' anything. Instead, I've done the opposite . . . and very deliberately sought-out the tired/somewhat tatty/mildly-neglected Original Gangsters --- or, at-the-very-least, something that was as close to un-restored, as possible . . .

. . . or affordable

As you'll find out, the level of effort + investment + knowledge required to execute a restoration properly is considerable. And --- in my experience . . . something always gets missed/compromised/'improved'

For me, tidying-up an 'un-restored' car meant that I got to see all the nonsense inflicted on it first-hand . . . prolly 'cause I was the one doing it. Cheaper, too = I get to pay-as-I-go

I mean, I actually drive the Nasty Thing . . .

;)



. . . something that will be changing drastically . . .


. . . + sooner-vs-later, too, I'm afraid




.............

---

No worries , I'll take yours ;-)