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Have the engine out for a gearbox swap and noticed the muffler has really started to go downhill. It was stored for many years and is rusting from the inside out. 1969 date code. No dents, un-scraped square tip. Kind of nice other than the rust. Several years ago when I got it, it was just a few of pinholes which I filled with muffler cement (no, I didn't expect it to last).
Hate to throw it out -- can a metal guy cut this open and patch the rot? The new Dansk repops sound awful.
IMO, it's done for. Just like rust anywhere else on a car, what you see on the outside is just the tip of the iceberg. Probably not a lot left inside other than rust.
Years ago, back when I lived in California, there was a guy in Torrance who specialized in repairing mufflers for vintage cars. Mostly Ferraris to my recollection. Gary something. Or Greg. Good guy. That doesn't answer your question other to say that muffler repair is certainly a thing. Now you just gotta hope someone is doing it in today's throw-away world.
What's left of that muffler is tissue paper and is almost impossible to save...
However, cut the off your early exit right at the canister and keep it. You might run into someone selling a first generation mid-year muffler (74-76) in good shape, and all you have to do is cut off the 'crooked' exit off the mid-year and weld your early exit on and you've got and 'newer' early muffler.... Like I did.. ;)
Hope this helps,
cm
Yeah John, it was me who edited your above post....
You want to talk about, PM me..... :rolleyes:
Hardly. I'll look forward to your edit the next time someone makes a fun of Texas or Oklahoma.
Ridiculous.
Gene Smythe was the guy in Torrance repairing vintage mufflers back in the early 90's. Quick Google search shows nothing but maybe someone here will remember or know if he's still in business.
Your on a great roll John. Surprised you haven't been benched.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromNY
This is why I rarely if ever sell used mufflers, they normally rust from the inside so even when they look ok from the outside the insides are almost always toast. People are never happy when they get one, so now I just say no.
---Adam
I hear that....Quote:
This is why I rarely if ever sell used mufflers, they normally rust from the inside so even when they look ok from the outside the insides are almost always toast. People are never happy when they get one, so now I just say no.
Years ago I paid $200 to a local guy for a muffler that looked OK on the outside and turned out worse then the one it replaced...
Hopefully I've learned... :rolleyes:
I bought it for a couple hundred bucks back in 2014 knowing it had a dozen pinholes, so I knew what I was getting into. Wish it could be saved. How hard could it be -- zip open the hot dog with a cutoff wheel, deal with the rust, and weld it closed? I can't stand the sound of the Dansks, they are loud and tinny, I like quiet and mellow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc
The problem is that the interior baffles are likely just as roached or worse, so there will be metal forming a plenty. But as you say, how hard could it be? Open that can 'o worms and please post photos. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah
While cutting it open is no problem, welding the likely paper thin rusted metal will be. No telling how much metal you’ll have to cut away to find solid enough metal to weld to.
It's worth a try, what you find inside may surprise you. We had an engine on the stand one time, a 356 motor, it fired up and was holding an idle. But within a few minutes pink insulation starting coming out the tail pipes, and then came the acorns. Just imagine an engine on the stand with the muffler at crotch height, and then flying acorns at the same height, it was funny and painful. Poor mouse house was destroyed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah
---Adam
The play (or by-play) such as appears in posts 3, 4, 5, and 7 isn't adding to anyone's enjoyment. If there are personal issues involved why not take them outside the forum.
Noah , I agree the Dansks sound terrible , but the mufflers sold by Porsche sound ok . Shop for the best price .
I found a local metal guy who's going to open it up and take a look. He's fixed a few of these before. Dropping it off tomorrow, fingers crossed.
Thank you for this information. You answered my question on the sound quality of the Porsche muffler. I didn't want to buy a Dansk because of the reported tinny sound, but wondered about the sound from the Porsche muffler. Porsche muffler is not cheap but I am going to buy one. This discussion on the Leistritz has convinced me to stop searching for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richy
Do all Dansks sound tinny, or just the stainless models? I've experienced (on other cars) that stainless mufflers often have a tinny sound. In one case, I tried 2 mufflers from the same manufacturer, one stainless and one mild steel. The mild steel sounded fine, the stainless one had an unpleasant tinny sound and resonance. Makes me wonder about the non-stainless Dansks.
I had a non-stainless Dansk on my car before I found the Leistritz. It was the standard early 911 muffler repro. I know I have strong opinions about this, but to me the Dansk is simply terrible. The Leistritz sound is mellow, deep, and has that classic 911 subtle whine at low RPM's. The Dansk is not only louder but the tone is cheap and raspy. The Dansk also gets much louder at higher RPM's than the Leistritz. The internals of these mufflers must be very different.
Who builds the Porsche muffler? Dansk?Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah
Interesting. Made me wonder what I have on my car now, so I crawled under to look. Mine is a Bischoff. Sounds pretty good to me.
Afraid that muffler is gone.....my welder fab guy has brazed isolated pin holes, but there is a limit.
Agree with Chuck! Save the tail pipe.
We shall see. Metal guy is going to cut a window in it so we can see how bad the internals are. If it's tinworm city in there, I'll have him cut off the tailpipe and that will be that.Quote:
Originally Posted by smedley
Finally got around to this. Good news, the rust is localized and the internals look great. It was rusted where the two outer bulkheads are spot-welded to the external can. The bulkheads themselves are fine. My metal guy is going to wire wheel the crust away, hose everything down with some zinc spray, and weld the windows up. And then braze the pinholes. Hopefully this buys me a few years or more with this Leistritz.
I'm wondering if I should have it acid dipped to remove the rust and ceramic coated. Then it'd basically be good for life, no? Has anyone tried this?
If you're in no hurry there's a couple of things you can do before welding. Taking a leaf from guys who restore old machinery, you could soak it in white vinegar, which is a mild, cheap derusting and cleaning agent for a week or two. Most people are amazed and unaware of what vinegar can do. Then soak it in one of the phosphate derusting and coating conversion solutions, my favorite is "The Must for Rust", but Evapo-Rust seems to be popular. You'll have far more protection on it than it left the factory with, and it will be ready for any paint you want. Most of the ceramic coatings, I believe, are only applied on the external surface. Look on Craigslist for a cheap plastic utility sink to soak it in.
You can go completely nuts and cut a tidy hole and have it galvanized, then seal the hole on the side with a stainless steel cover held on with high temp fasteners. I've actually seen this. If done well looks very aerospace.
Bill S
Thanks Bill, interesting info. I think these mufflers are special enough to save. My metal guy did a nice job cleaning up the muffler, welding up pinholes, etc. I don't know much about how this works but it'd be great to be able to dunk it in something that removes the remaining rust inside and out, then dunk it in something else that preserves the metal inside and out (these are highly technical chemistry terms :) ). I suspect that would preserve it forever. I'm on the hunt for a company that does this as I don't think I'm going to set this up at home.
I totally agree with the “quiet and mellow” preference. What kind of new mufflers are a good choice for this? I currently have this one installed, not sure who makes them:
https://www.vankesselsportscars.com/...1-20-22-24.htm
I now found out that I have a steel Dansk muffler. So it looks like there's room for improvement here. Any tips on which new muffler brands fit the "quiet and mellow" description? I'm looking for a sweet and deep exhaust note rather than "loud and tinny". Thanks in advance!
I have heard that the Porsche Classic muffler is very good. Also pricey. Does anyone here have experience with it?
Forgot to update this. My local metal guy did a nice job cutting out the two rust areas and welding in patches. He also welded up the handful of pinholes around the muffler can. After I got it back I sanded down the areas of surface rust, used a POR-15 type product to coat those areas, and then dusted the whole thing with hi-temp exhaust primer. Should be good for a few more years, hopefully more. Got the engine back in the car (also did a gearbox swap, RMS, and other misc maintenance) and the Leistritz sounds great.
Sounds good Noah, great that you were able to keep the Leistritz.
I would be very interested in that as well. We’re talking about this one right?Quote:
Originally Posted by steve shea
http://content2.eu.porsche.com/prod/...2580EA002C6DC9
If your guy did that with a Mig you better pat him on the back. That appears to be a continuous weld! I've fixed them using the stitching method with a Mig but blowing holes in "questionable" metal is a real problem.
Tigs are nice due to better control of heat and make stronger weld.
Congrats on the save.