The third 911 ever built is also still out there (1964)

Just from the equipment, you probably cant define if its prototyp or 901.

All those prototyps had pretty high equipment and were used as press cars (as Jay's 005). Unless they were destroyed, the were readapted/modified and prepared to be sold. 002 was the 1965 Targa Florio training car, 001 was a test car for tires. Both were sold later to private customers. Some (13326) were used by Piech while driving in the alps and Harald Wagner used a 901 prototyp for a wedding (photo exists). Possible the factory use defined if proto or "real" 901 and probably 007 was the first aimed to be sold "unsused".

Btw, the first Build book picture was by Aichele. Its the page we all have seen and shows 007 as being first.
Bob Fleming later got access to the archiv and could see much more details on this book.

I would love to see that wedding photo.

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Originally Posted by 911T1971

Just from the equipment, you probably cant define if its prototyp or 901.

All those prototyps had pretty high equipment and were used as press cars (as Jay's 005). Unless they were destroyed, the were readapted/modified and prepared to be sold. 002 was the 1965 Targa Florio training car, 001 was a test car for tires. Both were sold later to private customers. Some (13326) were used by Piech while driving in the alps and Harald Wagner used a 901 prototyp for a friend's wedding (photo exists). Possible the factory use defined if proto or "real" 901 and probably 007 was the first aimed to be sold "unsused".

Btw, the first Build book picture was by Aichele. Its the page we all have seen and shows 007 as being first.
Bob Fleming later got access to the archiv and could see much more details on this book.

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Hear what you are saying. However one(at least I do) then has to question the term "prototype" and whether that applies or whether they should just be called "Test" cars instead. It depends how you define the term Prototype. IMO a prototype is a conceptual model-which can also be a working model, which embodies and captures the intent or idea of a design and which ultimately leads to the development of a production model. I think this makes it important as it usually also represents "the origin of the species" per say. Without wishing to be controversial or negative, I personally I wouldn't class a press car as such, although I acknowledge that many people, and maybe the factory may do. Also testing a tire out doesn't in my book make for a prototype. I think that the term prototype does get abused somewhat and perhaps should be clarified more clearly when people use this term. Of course Karim, above you have indeed clarified the specific cars use so thank you. Then people can perhaps determine themselves the cars position, and perhaps importance in history. All of course IMHO...

Agree with you. Just wanted to share infos and some is IMHO.

If you read the developing history of the 901, you see it was more "try and error". It was basicially a mess, as many which were involved later reported.
You probably cant pinpoint a definition which clearly defines what was a prototyp for them…as they even sold those cars later too ! True is we took for granted that 001 and 002 were prototyps but 007 was not…maybe its wrong.
13xxx are shurely different then 300xxx, maybe this made a cut.
But also possible they took some 300xxx cars and used them as prototyps as 13xxx, while others were sold to clients directly…who then often complained and sent their new cars back to the factory for repairing/adapting.. as many factory documents proof: these early 901 cars were not properly ready for the market.

Btw its much more then "tire testing"..i dont know if its the place to list all these infos:
For example 002 was in factory use and had several engines mounted, among others a Carrera engine. Used for aerodynamic testing w tires, suspension, straight-line drive and strut level/angle testing. Drove in Monza-Italy, Nurburgring, Monte Carlo and elsewhere. Was prepared to be sold in late 1965.
The factory noted its a "Vorserienwagen" ie pre-series production car.

Aichele notes that even he gave in his book detailed infos about these cars he held back some important key-infos of these prototyp cars and which can identify each car.
I assume the factory did not want to give a template so someone could build a (fake)-copy.
All these infos were written in Germany over 20 years ago, when few were interested and value of these cars very low.

Here are -for example- the detailed infos on 300002.
First published in 1993 by Aichele
Attachment 363533


And here the today "famous" build book list.
First published in 1993 by Aichele.

I'm sorry but for some reason I cannot see the photos or get the Aichele's attachment Karim.
It's all very interesting of course, and I am sure we can't get the full 100% picture of exactly how things were. We are getting the information second and third hand and now 50 years plus later it becomes harder still! Just like any historical event.
And in fact it may be that many things were at play at the same time and there was no objectively "right" scenario, because there were a number of "players" within Porsche who each had a viewpoint and opinion of how things should be.....

you are right money talks if you deal with mr freisinger

Hope this does it

I find this interesting too

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Originally Posted by Frank Beck

I would love to see that wedding photo.

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here you go Frank
From Aichele's book
Attachment 363595

You beat me to it: I was just about to post a photo of the same page...

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Originally Posted by HughH

here you go Frank
From Aichele's book
Attachment 363595

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