WTB: NOS SWB Euro Headlights

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02-12-2019, 03:07 AM
Frank Beck

WTB: NOS SWB Euro Headlights

NOS SWB European headlights needed for 901. Very early 1964 car.
Might be open to excellent used.

Feel free to email. frank at becks european dot com

Thanks.
02-12-2019, 03:13 PM
Bullethead

Surprised you missed the pair Jim has offered: http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...raised-script)
02-12-2019, 03:27 PM
Frank Beck

Not positive those are for 901.

Was hoping this thread would be a survey as well as chumming.
02-12-2019, 03:42 PM
Arne

Those H1 lights were first offered for '68 model year cars. Any earlier cars had non-halogen.
02-13-2019, 04:43 AM
Frank Beck

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arne

Those H1 lights were first offered for '68 model year cars. Any earlier cars had non-halogen.

What does the car on the far right have?
02-13-2019, 06:39 AM
Arne

Scroll down to SWB Euro Lights. http://www.audettecollection.com/por...adlight-guide/

Short version - Bosch-made lights similar to H4s we all use today, but with a non-halogen dual filament bulb and a rounded front lens (same profile as the clear US glass).

http://www.audettecollection.com/wp-...headlights.jpg
02-13-2019, 07:04 AM
Frank Beck

Therein lies the challenge. Having trouble finding original Bosch Euro assemblies and lenses.
02-13-2019, 09:00 AM
21window

2 Attachment(s)

edit: ugh, why sideways? i think the iphones work right now and androids go sideways.
anyways pics are straight on my phone...

This is what came on my early 65 euro delivery car

Attachment 482872 Attachment 482873
02-13-2019, 09:06 AM
21window

Got the bulbs from Stoddards. Not H4's
02-13-2019, 09:48 AM
Frank Beck

Thank you. I’ll take em.

If those are original lenses they look pretty dang nice.
02-13-2019, 10:23 AM
21window

Not for sale. Just trying to help get you pointed in the right direction.:)
02-13-2019, 10:29 AM
210bhp

Arne

Those look like ultra rare Rhd lights.

Regards
02-13-2019, 10:31 AM
Frank Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21window

Not for sale. Just trying to help get you pointed in the right direction.:)

My humor falling flat today.
02-13-2019, 11:01 AM
21window

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

My humor falling flat today.

Well in that case, they are for sale but include an early 65 911 :D
02-13-2019, 11:05 AM
210bhp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

My humor falling flat today.

Mine too Frank. Seems like everyone forgets we are in Europe too. For now.

Regards
Mike
02-13-2019, 11:46 AM
Frank Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by 210bhp

Mine too Frank. Seems like everyone forgets we are in Europe too. For now.

Regards
Mike

Our lot in life Mike.

It’s a lonely road.
02-13-2019, 01:02 PM
Bullethead

So I understand correctly, are those the 4451 or 4475 lenses and were they used with H4s? Aside from the bulb, what other differences are there for the earliest versions?

Frank, I may (may) have a used pair worth restoring and will dig through the stash.

EDIT: Much for Grasshopper to learn and worth my revisiting this thread:

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ng-Data/page16
02-13-2019, 04:31 PM
Frank Beck

Those are Bee U T Full Eric.

Exactly what I'm looking for. Ready to pay.

Thanks to all for the links. How I've never seen Mark's wonderful restoration of 300129 is beyond me. What a handsome car!
02-13-2019, 05:43 PM
blue72s

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Those are Bee U T Full Eric.

Indeed, but European headlights and Euro turn signals are for European cars, not USA cars.

If I was an American with an US spec car, I'd buy USA headlights and red turn signals.
02-13-2019, 06:02 PM
Arne

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue72s

Indeed, but European headlights and Euro turn signals are for European cars, not USA cars.

If I was an American with an US spec car, I'd buy USA headlights and red turn signals.

Can't do it. Originality be damned, I want headlights that work. US sealed beams are like little birthday cake candles glowing through milky glass. Virtually worthless besides being rather ugly.
02-13-2019, 06:31 PM
blue72s

Ugly? The factory used the USA headlight assemblies on their works 911 race cars in Le Mans. Kinda cool.

For lighting improvement, here is some good info:
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BoschH4.html
02-13-2019, 07:26 PM
Arne

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue72s

Ugly? The factory used the USA headlight assemblies on their works 911 race cars in Le Mans. Kinda cool.

For lighting improvement, here is some good info:
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BoschH4.html

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't like the US assemblies, they look like a stopgap design forced on Porsche by some government regulation. Oh, wait...

As for the function of E-code replacement lights, I'm very familiar with that. I have had E-code lighting installed in every vehicle I've owned since I bought my first pair of H4 Cibié lights in 1976.

I really want to put a pair of H1 lights in my new-to-me '72 T. But since I have a pair of H4s that I kept from the '84 Carrera I just sold...
02-14-2019, 02:22 AM
Frank Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue72s

Indeed, but European headlights and Euro turn signals are for European cars, not USA cars.

If I was an American with an US spec car, I'd buy USA headlights and red turn signals.

Please read the heading.

I need European headlights. For a very early 901.
02-14-2019, 04:15 AM
Frank Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soterik

Mine are #4487. Interestingly the small wire "springs" around the perimeter of the ring are black, which I've never seen before. Sorry NFS, I have a car for these.
Pic for your reference.

Eric,
Just so there is a reference point; what's the long Bosch number on those? Can't quite make it out.

Thanks.
02-14-2019, 09:32 AM
moito

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Eric,
Just so there is a reference point; what's the long Bosch number on those? Can't quite make it out.

Thanks.

have a look here...http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...114#post978114
02-14-2019, 05:15 PM
blue72s

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arne

I don't like the US assemblies, they look like a stopgap design forced on Porsche by some government regulation.

I know what you mean.
02-14-2019, 05:30 PM
blue72s

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Please read the heading.

You updated your heading today, not yesterday. :rolleyes: You didn't say it was for a 1964 901.

Was there ever a '64 US-spec 901? If not, you would need 4430 lenses and 356 chrome bezels (without the bottom tab, of course).
02-15-2019, 02:55 AM
Frank Beck

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue72s

You updated your heading today, not yesterday. :rolleyes: You didn't say it was for a 1964 901.

Was there ever a '64 US-spec 901? If not, you would need 4430 lenses and 356 chrome bezels (without the bottom tab, of course).

The heading has always been "Euro".

356 chrome bezels?
With the "curve"?
Not that I don't believe this is possible but where is the evidence of that? Every 64 I've seen seems to have the "flat" 911 profile.
02-15-2019, 04:44 AM
blue72s

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Not that I don't believe this is possible but where is the evidence of that? Every 64 I've seen seems to have the "flat" 911 profile.

Here is an article with some pictures and video of a 1964 901 restoration by the factory. The chrome bezels appear to be 356. The lenses however are 4487's but for a '64 I guess 4430's would be more correct as the 901 mass production did not start until '65, did it?:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/hist...ion-14639.html
02-15-2019, 05:28 AM
moito

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue72s

Here is an article with some pictures and video of a 1964 901 restoration by the factory. The chrome bezels appear to be 356. The lenses however are 4487's but for a '64 I guess 4430's would be more correct as the 901 mass production did not start until '65, did it?:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/hist...ion-14639.html

#57 has two different lenses..one is a hella one is a bosch

pic shows what could have been the original lens of #57(came with #57 when found)(bug?)

i`m wondering if the trim ring currently on 57 is correct...if so it looks very strange
02-15-2019, 05:30 AM
Frank Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by moito

have a look here...http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...114#post978114

Thanks Franz.
I may regret later but trying not to piece meal. Would rather suck it up and pay stupid money now for complete originals.
02-15-2019, 05:32 AM
Frank Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by moito

#57 has two different lenses..one is a hella one is a bosch

pic shows what could have been the original lens of #57(came with #57 when found)

i`m wondering if the trim ring currently on 57 is correct...if so it looks very strange

Great...

Yet a third possibility. Strange and bulbous for sure.
02-15-2019, 06:08 AM
moito

1 Attachment(s)

Frank it`s a lazy day at the construction site

trim ring and bosch/reflector of #57 hella lens hl
02-15-2019, 08:08 AM
Cliff

Post#29 are H1 s. Anyone have a picture of the 4430 lens? And I presume it is a Bosch unit not Hella.
02-15-2019, 08:56 AM
Frank Beck

So I'm not crazy.
Unlike climate change, the very early SWB Euro headlight debate is not settled at all.

Eagerly awaiting more sightings of bigfoot and missing link headlight trivia.
02-15-2019, 09:14 AM
moito

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff

Post#29 are H1 s. Anyone have a picture of the 4430 lens? And I presume it is a Bosch unit not Hella.

google is your friend

https://www.ebay.de/itm/PORSCHE-911-...-/123634375046

not sure if this HL can be used for reference
knowing the seller a bit it could well be that he assembled/fabricated this unit
02-15-2019, 09:22 AM
moito

an other one with better pics of the lens

https://www.ebay.at/itm/303055591093
02-16-2019, 05:49 AM
Bullethead

This thread has gone full-blown anorak and I'm thoroughly confused about the trim profile shape. Franz, your car is only a few digits from Ruf's #78 901... are there detail photos of that car and #57 you've compared with your #96?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzsGFpH3oOE
02-16-2019, 06:36 AM
Frank Beck

I’ll email you Rick.

Problem here is that the factory was still cobbling together parts for the first couple dozen ‘64’s. Not sure anyone can say with great certainty that “only 2 versions” exist.

Maybe I’m wrong.
02-16-2019, 09:56 AM
blue72s

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66S

I can provide nos lights (stupid money)with nos 4487 lenses but have 7045 stickers (removable )

Can I just clarify something? If you mean 7045 stickers on the back of the reflector bowls, they CANNOT be used for LHD because the recess in the bulb opening where the bulb aligns is at a different rotation angle.

LHD and RHD reflectors are not the same and are not interchangeable.

4487 = LHD
7045 = RHD
02-16-2019, 10:15 AM
Frank Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullethead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzsGFpH3oOE

Video was difficult to stomach. Made it 45 seconds before I finally had to mute. Some people simply need to be quiet.
02-16-2019, 11:06 AM
blue72s

1 Attachment(s)

Here is a picture of LHD reflectors. I have drawn two red circles showing the location of the recess. Now, can you please post a similar picture of your 7045 reflectors? (remove bulb holder).

Attachment 483078
02-16-2019, 11:23 AM
66S

2 Attachment(s)

I see, maybe a 10 degree difference, nothing a little file work cant fix in short order. Notice the lhd socket is not rotated one way or another but the rhd one is.. Does that make sense? Why didnt the lens fluting get rotated to match the bulb on rhd? Wierd Science? Thanks for the heads up, somebody could have gotten hurt, OR WORSE.
02-16-2019, 11:36 AM
blue72s

2 Attachment(s)

Answer:

Attachment 483084

Attachment 483085
02-16-2019, 11:45 AM
66S

1 Attachment(s)

Correct. You get a gold star for your forehead. Now, after about a minute with my jewelers file. The world will be safe. It is wierd how the lhd and rhd bulbs are oriented about 10 deg. different but the retainers are 180deg. different. What were they thinking?
02-16-2019, 12:13 PM
Cliff

4 Attachment(s)

So, which hand drive are these? Please, no sleight of hand..........{ ok. I see mine are LHD }........ last picture showing orientation of light as seen from the driver seat, with lights showing the bottom drain (3) vents.
02-16-2019, 04:01 PM
blue72s

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff

So, which hand drive are these?

LHD definitely.
02-16-2019, 04:10 PM
blue72s

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66S

It is wierd how the lhd and rhd bulbs are oriented about 10 deg. different but the retainers are 180deg. different. What were they thinking?

For ease of identifying the part, I would think.

How many NOS 7045 units do you have? Send me a PM if you prefer.
Thanks.
02-16-2019, 08:20 PM
Cliff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soterik

Mine are #4487. Interestingly the small wire "springs" around the perimeter of the ring are black, which I've never seen before. Sorry NFS, I have a car for these.
Pic for your reference.

Raised script? Page 2 (Post#18)
Slot or Phillips?

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