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Thread: Avon CR6ZZ Question

  1. #21
    Fwiw, I've had CR6ZZ on my 914 for a couple of years and a few thousand miles now. Got caught out in rain after Luft 2017, and they seemed fine on the freeway...did better than I expected and MUCH better than, say, a 997 GT3 on the old Pilot Sport Cups. But then, that isn't saying much.

    Still love the simple sidewalls and period treads, but will probably do 195/65R15 P6000s next time. Why? The Avons have, from what I can tell, stiff sidewalls—which, along with the Bilstein HDs on my car, seem to have a mostly negative effect on the street—and their "sweet spot" comes only when they're really heated up. On the street, in an old Porsche, I find it tricky to get them hot enough to get them into that zone. Part of the problem on my car may be further sorting of the suspension to dial it in, but I think the P6000s have a lot to offer for a street car. YMMV!

    What I really wish were available were Yokohama A-008R IIs or even A-008Ps in 195/65R15 and 215/60R15. Or AVS Intermediates. Simple sidewalls and treads with +15~ years of tire tech over period tires. A real sweet spot for vintage Porsche tires...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by t6dpilot View Post
    Mike, time for an update on the tire choice. I am thinking of adding the Avons to my 69. There were $280 from Sasco Motorsports back then. Nice to see that they have not raised the price on them since then.
    Scott, unfortunately they are mounted on a set of 4.5" Fuchs that are still waiting to be installed once my restoration is completed. They haven't turned in anger as of yet.

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,165
    Quote Originally Posted by stout View Post
    Fwiw, I've had CR6ZZ on my 914 for a couple of years and a few thousand miles now. Got caught out in rain after Luft 2017, and they seemed fine on the freeway...did better than I expected and MUCH better than, say, a 997 GT3 on the old Pilot Sport Cups. But then, that isn't saying much.

    Still love the simple sidewalls and period treads, but will probably do 195/65R15 P6000s next time. Why? The Avons have, from what I can tell, stiff sidewalls—which, along with the Bilstein HDs on my car, seem to have a mostly negative effect on the street—and their "sweet spot" comes only when they're really heated up. On the street, in an old Porsche, I find it tricky to get them hot enough to get them into that zone. Part of the problem on my car may be further sorting of the suspension to dial it in, but I think the P6000s have a lot to offer for a street car. YMMV!

    What I really wish were available were Yokohama A-008R IIs or even A-008Ps in 195/65R15 and 215/60R15. Or AVS Intermediates. Simple sidewalls and treads with +15~ years of tire tech over period tires. A real sweet spot for vintage Porsche tires...
    Hi Pete,

    I remember our tire discussion at R Gruppe a few years back. I like my Pirelli P6000 tires for street use, but would like more grip that the CR6ZZ would offer.

    The sidewalls on the P6000 are not too stiff and they offer good steering response for such a tall sidewall (195/65-15 and 215/60-15). I'm curious on your suspension set up on the 914. Do you have plastic bushings or stiff torsion and/or sway bars?

    Cheers,
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Bert Jayasekera
    1970 911T - Tangerine Orange
    Early 911S Registry #494
    R Gruppe #167

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
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    194
    I have been using Yokohama A-008R's on the American mags on my66 911 and about a year ago my friend Bobby saw a set on the 914 site new A-008R's four with the Yokohama wrappers still on them? haven't put them on yet but will soon.

    Regards

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    Hi Pete,

    I remember our tire discussion at R Gruppe a few years back. I like my Pirelli P6000 tires for street use, but would like more grip that the CR6ZZ would offer.

    The sidewalls on the P6000 are not too stiff and they offer good steering response for such a tall sidewall (195/65-15 and 215/60-15). I'm curious on your suspension set up on the 914. Do you have plastic bushings or stiff torsion and/or sway bars?

    Cheers,
    Hey Bert,

    Rubber bushings, Bilstein HDs (have learned that I prefer Koni damping to off-the-shelf Bilstein), 21-mm ARB up front, 1972~ 911T front torsion bars, 140-lb rear springs in rear, and no rear ARB. So, a pretty soft setup. I think the CR6ZZ sidewalls are a bit too stiff for the setup—but I think the high-speed damping of the Bilsteins may be part of the problem with the jiggly-ness. It's pretty minor, and far from unacceptable. And everything smooths out pretty nicely past 50 mph...but I miss the fluidity of my old setup on Konis + modern performance street tires. The car rode and handled exceptionally, even compared to modern cars. Now, not so much. There is some dialing to do, for sure....

    Your 911 looks great!!!

    pete

  6. #26
    Senior Member
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    Feb 2003
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by stout View Post
    Hey Bert,

    Rubber bushings, Bilstein HDs (have learned that I prefer Koni damping to off-the-shelf Bilstein), 21-mm ARB up front, 1972~ 911T front torsion bars, 140-lb rear springs in rear, and no rear ARB. So, a pretty soft setup. I think the CR6ZZ sidewalls are a bit too stiff for the setup—but I think the high-speed damping of the Bilsteins may be part of the problem with the jiggly-ness. It's pretty minor, and far from unacceptable. And everything smooths out pretty nicely past 50 mph...but I miss the fluidity of my old setup on Konis + modern performance street tires. The car rode and handled exceptionally, even compared to modern cars. Now, not so much. There is some dialing to do, for sure....

    Your 911 looks great!!!

    pete
    Hi Pete,

    I posted the photo to show the P6000 tire sidewalls and stance.

    I rebuilt my suspension as follows:

    Rubber bushings
    21 mm Front TB
    27 mm Rear TB
    18 mm F/R Sway Bars
    Bilstein custom valved shocks, which are pretty close to HDs.
    Weight reduction to 2180 lbs.

    My car handles great, but I also noticed some front end jiggly-ness like you. I thought the Bilsteins were too stiff, so I removed them and had them shock dyno'd at a local race shop. They sent me dyno graphs and said the shocks are fine. They're more on the soft side, not too stiff for the car.

    They noted the weight reduction in my car. Most of the weight was removed from the front end and they told me that the 21 front TB is too stiff for car weight. They recommended that I return the front to the stock 18.8 TB. Which I plan to do next month.

    Your 21 mm front sway bar might be too stiff for your suspension set up. Something to consider.
    Bert Jayasekera
    1970 911T - Tangerine Orange
    Early 911S Registry #494
    R Gruppe #167

  7. #27
    What about Ed Mayo's suggestion of 195/65-15 Goodyear Eagle Sport all season radials?IMG_3829.jpg
    Mark Curtin
    Early S Registry #369
    Rgruppe #247

  8. #28
    Same tire on a 911,both cars with 6" rims.IMG_3851.jpg
    Mark Curtin
    Early S Registry #369
    Rgruppe #247

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 71six View Post
    What about Ed Mayo's suggestion of 195/65-15 Goodyear Eagle Sport all season radials?IMG_3829.jpg
    I followed Ed’s advice several years ago and find them a fantastic all-around tire. Living in the NE they’ve handled everything I’ve thrown at them, including snow. If you’re afraid you’re leaving a few extra tenths behind, Ed told me he autocrossed on his Eagles which is good enough for me...

  10. #30
    I'm running the Goodyears on the '74 and find the initial turn in to be little soft (sidewall) otherwise they're ok. When "sawing" the wheel at slow speed you can feel them flex which is a bit off-putting but again, they're not a bad alternative.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

    Early S Registry #235
    rgruppe #111

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