W: Non-numbers matching driver 911 non-sunroof coupe project (possibly hot-rodded)

[Nike SB'd]

Hello everyone,

I'm a long time lurker here with only a few posts but I figure it doesn't hurt to reach out to this crowd for some help.

Long story short I've been searching for a car on and off for the past two years and it seems that just as my budget increases, so does the market value. I've been dreaming of the day when I can make a "new member - here's my 911 project" post, but alas the day is still yet to come. On top of that the reselling for LH cars is insane and I'm starting to wonder if it's even possible for a "normal" person to actively buy an early 911 from a classified ad in 2014 (without being completely bent-over at dealer prices). In fact I've even started looking into impact bumper cars since January but I know in my heart I won't be as happy as I would be with an early car - but I digress...

This is to be my first Porsche, but I've spent my entire life yearning for one and the last five years seriously researching, reading about and photographing these cars so I'm not a total n00b (I'm a commercial car photographer by trade - www.seanklingelhoefer.com ). I have a mechanical background and I plan on restoring / building as much of the car as possible myself (everything except engine and gearbox most likely) and likely documenting the process for publication. While this may be my first Porsche, it likely will not be my last and I plan on having the car virtually forever. I'm a pretty sentimental person and I have yet to ever sell a car I've owned.

I'm looking to build a car that will be driven a lot, from coffee shop runs to 1,000 mile road trips to HPDE track days. I will be using the car a lot and don't want something that's "too nice", nor do I want to try to take a car off the market and "destroy" it when it could be better enjoyed by someone else. That's why I'm betting there's a car out there that's already been modified that will better meet my needs and likely at a lower price.

Right so, now that you know a little about me, here's what I'm hoping to find.

-Preferably something that has already been swapped and "de-valued" accordingly - 3.0 or 3.2 with Webbers or similar
-Preferably a non-sunroof car - since this will be seeing track time it only makes sense to start with one of these as the base
-Preferably a 72-73.5 - LWB and has the ability to easily adapt later SC rear footwork without modification
-Preferably narrow original body
-Preferably a car that is white, silver or grey
-Preferably a car that has black interior

Now those are really just "wish" points. My ideal car would be a white '72 non-sunroof coupe with black interior and a 3.2 swap, but I know that's a needle in a fairly large haystack - hence I'm open to anything interesting which fits into my budget and is a long hood car.

Which brings us to the "big" question - budget. For the moment, my budget is $35k. This will likely go up in the near future, but I would like to stay close (or even well under) this for starters. I know a lot of people may think this is too low in today's market, but I still see cars well within this price range all the time. In fact a car just went up on the Samba today (whom I have already contacted) that's a white (originally green) 68 w/ an SC engine for $25k so I know the cars are out there...

Anyway I check this forum and all the others several times a day, as well as craigslist, but I'm starting to think that good-old-fashioned-word-of-mouth may be the only real option I have. I'm not the kind of guy who will send complete payment for a car sight unseen and hope for the best. I'm not wealthy and this is a considerable amount of money to me. Maybe I'm "too particular" but that's just the way I am. I like to see the car, meet the previous owner and get a good feel for it. I'm an all-or-nothing type of person, either the car is right or it is wrong. I won't see a car and think "it's close enough, maybe I'll offer less and see how it goes".

So if you or someone you know might have something that you think fits what I'm looking for, I'm all ears. I'm not in any particular rush, sooner or later I'll find the right car - or more likely, the car will find me. You can contact me here or by email at sean@seanklingelhoefer.com

Thanks for your time everyone, my fingers are crossed!

-Sean

[Schiefer]

Hi Sean,
Good luck in your search! If I was going to sell a car, I would be looking for a guy like you!
It is not too late to find a good project even if things are a bit crazy right now..

Just some thoughts:
I think it´s a smart move to advertise what you are looking for instead of being one of many trying to respond first to the ads... I would also advertise other places like magazines. One example is Classic Porsche where it´s free, and you never know who is reading..

I would also consider being more active here, become a paying member (or maybe you are already?), proudly display your membership number and have a signature showing you are looking for a car. I would not wait until you can announce your project thread. I did not join the Porsche club over here until I had bought my first one and realized the first day I logged into the forum that the process would have been so much easier if I had joined earlier because of all the people willing to help. This place is 100 times better than our national forum...

Being a photographer (nice site and pics btw!) you have a lot you can contribute with here and lots of people would be interested in seeing more from several of those photo shoots you have already done.

Being based in LA you are lucky to have the possibility to visit and get to know more personally so many of the right people. I would love to be able to stop by at EASY or TLG and so on and just say hi, but it´s not so easy from where I´m located.

Just curious why a 72 is the ultimate? Just the oil tank or something else??

Again good luck!

Rgds, Radmund

[Schiefer]

....and be creative!! What about a free photo shoot for the person here who help you locate the right car???

[Nike SB'd]

....and be creative!! What about a free photo shoot for the person here who help you locate the right car???

Hello Radmund,

Thanks for the kind words! Indeed hope is not lost, and as you say maybe I should just start being as active as possible around here and other places as well. I've just always had the feeling (possibly wrongly so) that it was a bit of a prerequisite to own a car before being a member. But as you say, you can gain a lot of knowledge before hand which will save you from making a stupid purchase and my years of sitting quietly and reading here have definitely taught me many things.

I think you've got a valid point and that maybe I should put up more wanted ads. I've gotten very discouraged on craigslist since every time I post an ad it gets flagged within minutes which gets to be frustrating. But I suppose other places like magazines may be the ticket - as you said you never know who's out there and, as they say, "what's the worst that could happen?"

'72 is my favorite due to the suspension layout and the oil door. It's a stupid irrelevant thing, but I like how it looks. Mechanically though 72-73.5 are all equally preferable.

Perhaps you're right about sharing some photos, I have had the good fortune to see many incredible things during my still rather short career - including Nürburgring 24h, Rennsport Reunion IV, Kremer Motorsports, RWB Japan and become friends with people like Magnus Walker all because of my work. I've even had the good fortune of visiting your incredibly beautiful country for Gatebil Rudskogen in 2012.

Finally you're absolutely right about the photo shoot - I've actually posted to my personal tumblr that I would offer a finders fee or a photo session or a signed one-off large archival print to anyone who helps me locate a car. I'm more than happy to leverage the one thing I'm good at!

Anyway thanks again for the positive note, it's encouraging!

Cheers,

Sean

[gsjohnson]

Maybe?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...oof-coupe.html

[NorthernThrux]

Maybe?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...oof-coupe.html

Rust under the doors. You can see heavy staining on the door seals and see it under the driver's door panel. Rust on the rear slam panel, see bottom right of last pic. Door speakers behind front pockets. Drivers seat back piping (or worse) worn. Do a PPI if you are really interested, but there will be a premium for a COA that says all matching. Bet on $90k.

[Nike SB'd]

Rust under the doors. You can see heavy staining on the door seals and see it under the driver's door panel. Rust on the rear slam panel, see bottom right of last pic. Door speakers behind front pockets. Drivers seat back piping (or worse) worn. Do a PPI if you are really interested, but there will be a premium for a COA that says all matching. Bet on $90k.

I completely agree. Considering he's throwing out "$45k for a non-running basket case" I wouldn't be at all shocked if he's expecting to see twice that for his car. Even $45 is outside of my budget for now, let alone whatever he's asking. Furthermore I've had cars offered that I consider to be in much better condition than this for under $40k.

Again for me originality isn't that important, I put my value in the structural integrity of the car. Since I do plan on driving the car often and hard, I'll take a mish-mashed strong runner / full race car over an original clunker any day of the week. Long term I'll almost certainly not be running an early engine in the car anyway so for my money it doesn't make much (if any) sense to pay a premium on a matching car that I'm just going to "destroy" anyway.

I'd rather that the collector cars stay original and go to collectors, I know there are already plenty of bastardized cars out there that would be just right in my eyes. As I told a guy earlier this week, the only thing I'm interested in collecting are rock chips.

Regardless I do appreciate people throwing out links, it's nice to feel welcomed.

[Jules Dielen]

In fact a car just went up on the Samba today (whom I have already contacted) that's a white (originally green) 68 w/ an SC engine for $25k so I know the cars are out there...

-Sean

I love the 'integrated jack posts' on that car..... what else lies beneath? There are still good cars out there for sure, but as with 356 and Ferraris, it is getting more difficult to find good cars at reasonable prices. There is a honkin' pile of junk 65 911 on Samba as well for a mind boggling 89k.

[LongRanger]

. . . Again for me originality isn't that important, I put my value in the structural integrity of the car. Since I do plan on driving the car often and hard, I'll take a mish-mashed strong runner / full race car over an original clunker any day of the week. Long term I'll almost certainly not be running an early engine in the car anyway so for my money it doesn't make much (if any) sense to pay a premium on a matching car that I'm just going to "destroy" anyway . . .

. . . I'd rather that the collector cars stay original and go to collectors, I know there are . . already plenty of bastardized cars out there that would be just right in my eyes . . .

Hey, Sean . . .

Interesting way to introduce yourself . . . and about the kind of car that you're looking for

Here's something to consider . . .

Instead of buying a whole car? . . . maybe you might start by buying all the pieces --- starting with a solid tub. Or even making one. Sounds kinda kooky, I know, but --- here's a car that started with just a pair of flairs . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ST-in-Progress

Point is --- as long as you're not overly-concerned w/ 'originality,' I think it might be perfectly feasible to . . .
1) Find a half-ways-decent shell . . .
2) . . . fix any damage/rust/etc --- slowly/carefully/methodically . . . + as time + finances + work-space allow . . .
3) . . . collecting any engine, transmission, or other assorted paraphenalia as you go --- then? . . .
4) . . . build it up over time

That way, at least you're making some progress w/ your car over time w/o getting caught up chasing cars while the values are all-over-the-place. Car prices maybe kooky . . . but how many people would be doing what you're doing? --- looking for a good shell, only

Prolly just the Racers . . . and you know how cheap those guys are



Anyway --- welcome to Our Little Corner

Best o' luck . . . and keep us posted?

[Nike SB'd]

I love the 'integrated jack posts' on that car..... what else lies beneath? There are still good cars out there for sure, but as with 356 and Ferraris, it is getting more difficult to find good cars at reasonable prices. There is a honkin' pile of junk 65 911 on Samba as well for a mind boggling 89k.

After asking for more photos and speaking with the owner I have decided to pass on that car. Really nice and honest sounding guy and admittedly said the car has some issues and some shoddy work - but even still apparently he has had offers above his asking price which is astonishing to me, but I truly wish him luck. It might be the right car for someone.

Hey, Sean . . .

Interesting way to introduce yourself . . . and about the kind of car that you're looking for

Here's something to consider . . .

Instead of buying a whole car? . . . maybe you might start by buying all the pieces --- starting with a solid tub. Or even making one. Sounds kinda kooky, I know, but --- here's a car that started with just a pair of flairs . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ST-in-Progress

Point is --- as long as you're not overly-concerned w/ 'originality,' I think it might be perfectly feasible to . . .
1) Find a half-ways-decent shell . . .
2) . . . fix any damage/rust/etc --- slowly/carefully/methodically . . . + as time + finances + work-space allow . . .
3) . . . collecting any engine, transmission, or other assorted paraphenalia as you go --- then? . . .
4) . . . build it up over time

That way, at least you're making some progress w/ your car over time w/o getting caught up chasing cars while the values are all-over-the-place. Car prices maybe kooky . . . but how many people would be doing what you're doing? --- looking for a good shell, only

Prolly just the Racers . . . and you know how cheap those guys are



Anyway --- welcome to Our Little Corner

Best o' luck . . . and keep us posted?

I'm definitely open to the idea of a shell or more preferably a rolling chassis. The only thing that scares me about doing that with a Porsche in particular is that it is my experience that building a car from a shell is a great way to nickel-and-dime yourself to death. Not only will it take a good two-to-five years of your life to complete the car, but you'll often times exceed the cost (and then some) of just buying an already restored car or even a fixer-upper and restoring that - at least then you have all the bits. On a car where the damn tool kit is worth nearly $1500 this appears to be a fairly expensive proposition . Of course there are ways around this (using bolts stamped VW instead of Porsche etc) but in general I find it's cost prohibitive and also frustrating (are you sure this bolt goes here? ) but even still I am open to the possibility if the right car comes along.

I'm fairly strongly opinionated and while I do set guidelines, my search is still very much "I don't know exactly what I want, but I'll know it when I see it." I may think I want a running car but then someone comes along with an abandoned project with exactly the same taste in modifications as me. You never know, stranger things have definitely happened.

Again I really appreciate you guys responding and I hope to become a valuable contributor to this site.