Need Help on 66 911

[mike911]

Greetings from Ontario, Canada... this is my first post and already I have my hand out, please forgive me.

I have been a Porsche guy for 33 years since purchasing my first 79SC back in 1981 and the rest as they say is history.

8 years ago in anticipation of retirement I decided I wanted to spend my time sharing the passion of Porsche's so I became a licensed dealer here in Ontario. I have been a long time PCA member and have made many friends along the way.

I began my small hobby business offering air-cooled cars, mostly 84-89 Carrera's and 95-98 993's. I have an fairly good understanding of these cars, however, not so good with the earlier cars.

A while ago I received a call from a fellow who owns a 1966 911 coupe, he indicated a desire to sell and asked me if I would be interested, of course I said yes. we met and I looked but the timing wasn't right. Fast forward five years later I decided to try and make contact with him to see if he still had the car and if he was interested in selling.

I was able to reach him and he still owns the car and he indicated that if I was interested we could meet and discuss it. I arranged to meet with him today and had another look and here is where I need help.

I will provide some details and a few photos along with a few questions for your guidance.

The car is a 1966 based on my research of the VIN (303565). This fellow has owned the car for 30 years since 1984. It is not the original color (6607 510 Sand Beige) it is currently either black or very dark grey? It is a very decent driver quality car.

The rear engine lid script on the car indicates 911S, the data plate indicates 911 (sgwiggly line) S 66? The engine number is 903656, couldn't see the transmission number but the fellow indicates it's all matching numbers?

The odometer indicates 13936 (appears to be 113936 miles based on condition).

Recent clutch and transmission rebuild 13,000 miles ago. no cracks in the dash, wood dash plate has no cracks, it has leather interior and is a 5 speed car.

Drivers side mirror looks wrong? someone appears to have changed the fenders to flared. Has Weber 40's, he says he has the original fuel pump (mechanical)?

Original wheels have been replaced although he claims he has one of the originals?

Non sunroof car with original headliner in very nice condition as are the sun visors and all trim. Original glass except the windshield. Gauges work as does the clock.

He indicates he replaced the floors and rockers some time ago.

Please have a look at some of the photos, I have included a link for your review and comment...

http://autosportcanada.com/1966-911s/

I'm trying to determine if it is an "S" model?
How much of the originality that is visible from the photos has been changed?
What is the value of the car as a driver in the current condition?
What would be the approximate cost to do a nice (not concours) restoration and would it make sense when considering the value when completed?
What would the value be if nicely restored?

Let me know what other details I may be able to provide in exchange for reliable information? I would like to purchase this car but admit I do not know the value.

Any help will be very appreciated,
Regards,
Mike

[Bradford]

Wow, very similar story to my 66' that I bought last year. My car is only 16 numbers later than this car. Probably built the last week of Jan. 66'. I had the same 911S script on mine. Unfortunately, there were no "S" models until 67'. Original carbs would have been Solex's. There are others on here that are much more up to date with values and restoration costs than myself. Thanks for sharing.

[StephenAcworth]

Nice find: to echo Scott, it cannot be an S based on the chassis number. 304598 was built in May 1966 and is around 1000 cars later than yours. Refurb/restoration costs are so variable dependent on who does them and the level to which they are done... but it looks like a very nice car to start with...
Cheers and welcome to the registry!
Stpehen

[mike911]

Thanks Scott and Stephen for your input, it's not mine yet but I'm hoping with a bit more feedback on the current value the way it sits I will be more prepared to make a fair offer.

Hopefully more members will reply with opinions regarding value, until then I appreciate the information provided already. At least I know that it is not an "S" and why. So it's a straight 911, was there a "T" or an "E" model during 66?

Thanks again fellows,
Mike

[Bradford]

No T or E in 66', just a plain old 911.

[StephenAcworth]

Mike, In 1964, 1965, and 1966 model years there were only 'normal' 911 cars. The S was introduced as a 1967 model; even though some were made in 1966. If the engine number is as per the photo, 903656, it would indeed be period correct to the car though no guarantee it is matching numbers as per the build. However, the engine should have Solex 40 PI carbs... that will make a difference to the value perhaps... many cars were changed to Webers as they were easier to set up. Solex engines seem to attract a premium at the moment.

The floors, headliner and dash pad appear to be in very good condition which make the car more attractive...

Sand beige is an attractive colour for some (me!) and so a return to the original colour would be good. Not sure a black interior would be original to the colour, maybe others can chime in. It would be useful to obtain the Kardex to check these details.

Steering wheel looks nice (leather?) and green gauges with wood dash are always nice, but it looks like your dash was cut to make way for a 'newer' radio... as many (most) have...

Parcel shelf has some damage and the door cards have been cut for speakers: these would need to be repaired/replaced.

Whilst the mirror is not original to the car, it looks as if it might be a genuine Porsche part from the early 1970s and, as such, would appeal to someone with a car of that period.

You have 4-screw horn grills, which add to the evidence to show that this a largely stock early car, and therefore quite interesting.

There are plenty of people on this Board who will be able to offer better advice than I can, but I hope this helps a little...

And I think it looks a great car to buy!!! (depending on the $$$s of course)...

Stephen

Thanks Scott and Stephen for your input, it's not mine yet but I'm hoping with a bit more feedback on the current value the way it sits I will be more prepared to make a fair offer.

Hopefully more members will reply with opinions regarding value, until then I appreciate the information provided already. At least I know that it is not an "S" and why. So it's a straight 911, was there a "T" or an "E" model during 66?

Thanks again fellows,
Mike

[gsjohnson]

Quality of the pan(s) replacement is important. I doubt that you would want to do this over again. And if those were replaced, most likely there is other hidden rust...such as the rear shelf area under the rear glass. Many buyers get stung with that one as it is usually hidden. I would also check the rockers at the jacking points. If everything is solid, I'd say 30k to 40K.

[mike911]

Quality of the pan(s) replacement is important. I doubt that you would want to do this over again. And if those were replaced, most likely there is other hidden rust...such as the rear shelf area under the rear glass. Many buyers get stung with that one as it is usually hidden. I would also check the rockers at the jacking points. If everything is solid, I'd say 30k to 40K.

Thanks again Stephen, you also have a PM.

Thanks gsjohnson for the input regarding the possibility of rust hiding under the rear parcel shelf and for the opinion on current value. This is what I need to get a better grasp on to make a possible offer.

It's an interesting car but trying to determine current value while considering the cost associated with restoring it to original and the value completed against the current value and just driving it is what I need help with.

Thanks again,
Mike

[304065]

Here are a few observations (I don't comment on valuation)

Yes Solex motor, last solex was 903910 on 21 February 1966. However, you have early Weber crossbar (ended early 67 I think) but later manifolds with the flying buttresses in the casting for strength. So I think this could be a Weber retrofit car with the factory service bulletin.

Of course the decklid is off a later car. Center script and missing central fin. Three bar 69-
later rear bumperettes
looks like a Bursch exhaust
Looks like a solex air cleaner snorkel on Weber housing, never seen that before
Bosch red coil with original ballast resistor and replaced wiring, I bet it burns up the points quite often.
leather seats a nice option
floors look decent but the inner rocker/longitudinal is an area of concern
Tough repaint-- somebody who paints over the paint code tag, you wonder what ele they did
wood steering wheel missing
original shift lever with 914 knob
pedal covers missing
72- flag mirror instead of small durant
wipers parked on wrong side
cookie cutters instead of 4.5" steel wheels (and fender lips, the wide ones pre -68, rolled under)
Four screw horn grils, nice early touch, might be from an earlier car?
Front bumper is from a 72 S and doesn't fit right because LWB fender dimensions are different.
1968 door handles, maybe 68 doors also?
webasto bits all look present

this car was probably a euro delivery, notice how it doesn't have hazard switch natively in the dash, but there is an add on VDO hazard switch? that is a sign of early federalization.

[StephenAcworth]

Great detail comments there: some I had caught but most are giving me new info: particularly the VDO switch, I hadn't seen one of those before!

S

Here are a few observations (I don't comment on valuation)

Yes Solex motor, last solex was 903910 on 21 February 1966. However, you have early Weber crossbar (ended early 67 I think) but later manifolds with the flying buttresses in the casting for strength. So I think this could be a Weber retrofit car with the factory service bulletin.

Of course the decklid is off a later car. Center script and missing central fin. Three bar 69-
later rear bumperettes
looks like a Bursch exhaust
Looks like a solex air cleaner snorkel on Weber housing, never seen that before
Bosch red coil with original ballast resistor and replaced wiring, I bet it burns up the points quite often.
leather seats a nice option
floors look decent but the inner rocker/longitudinal is an area of concern
Tough repaint-- somebody who paints over the paint code tag, you wonder what ele they did
wood steering wheel missing
original shift lever with 914 knob
pedal covers missing
72- flag mirror instead of small durant
wipers parked on wrong side
cookie cutters instead of 4.5" steel wheels (and fender lips, the wide ones pre -68, rolled under)
Four screw horn grils, nice early touch, might be from an earlier car?
Front bumper is from a 72 S and doesn't fit right because LWB fender dimensions are different.
1968 door handles, maybe 68 doors also?
webasto bits all look present

this car was probably a euro delivery, notice how it doesn't have hazard switch natively in the dash, but there is an add on VDO hazard switch? that is a sign of early federalization.