1969 Soft window targa question

[beh911]

...The option code 9356 clearly states SOFT WIN. I have never seen it before on a LWB.

That is a first for me

... Could the "SG" indicate an option group that includes the SWT?

I don't think so. "SG" followed by a number shows up on almost all the 69 Targa kardexes I have. It has something to do with Targa but not the soft window

[Jules Dielen]

here is #2! 0231 is officially a SWT?

[911T1971]

All MY 1969 sales literature for dealers lists BOTH choices for Targa's clearly available.

For RoW it was option 9316.
For US, it was option 9356.
By 1969 the SWT was delivered only as a two seater, since option 9282 (Luggage plattform instead of Standard rear seats) was mandatory. As member Soterik mentioned, US DoT did not accept rear seats on the open SWT to prevent passengers being harmed at a rollover. This might be the reason why 1969 SWT option codes differ btw US and RoW markets as RoW did could come with rear seats. Also, you could either order a FWT or SWT at similar costs, there was no special/extra price when ordering (See also post 14).


1969 "Sales Handbook " USA:






1969 Product Information & Specifications US:






1969 Accessories RoW: (option code differs to US spec)






1969 Acccessory USA: (option code differs to RoW spec)

[911T1971]

More on that, even the 1971 RoW Accessories brochure still lists the option under M 437 !








Also, the 1971 USA Dealer Pricelist lists "Soft rear window" on Targa under the same option 437.
It also indicated that choice for a SWT came at no charge (N.C.)
BTW, 911S US came standard w Sports seats or at No charge (N.C) w regular seats..




(Source: I own this literature)

[curtisaa]

Curt, what is your idea on the info on 119310107 above? The option code 9356 clearly states SOFT WIN. I have never seen it before on a LWB. The hard window option on MY 68 cars seems to be clearly noted on cars that came with a glass window (i have seen a few of those), but the SWT option for MY69 seems foggy at best.

Could the "SG" indicate an option group that includes the SWT?

Looks like 107 is still black and looking good! See post:

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ight=119310107

Heres' what I've learned :

1967 : All Targas' are SWT

1968: Porsche marketing decided after US DOT rules changed that ALL Targas' ( converibles) , SWT, were convertibles could NO longer have rear seats. Hence the seat delete
was mandatory in the rear after December 31, 1967. The factory had already began the glass window option production anticipating the change in the American Laws. Since these
cars were predominately headed for Cali, they continued limilted production on SWT, and continued with glass window with the rear seats. So coincidently there are less glass window Targas' in 1968 than SWT's. Currently, even though the production is lower of glass windows in 1968, we have decided the SWT's are much sexier making the values higher.

1969: The factory wanted to continue the Targa program, so the glass Targas' were the rule and the SWT's were very few, because these still only had two front seats and the "rear seat delete. No accountable person I've talked to knows for sure how many T, E, and S SWT's were produced and sold in MY 1969. The dealers were NOT able to sell the two seat Targas', so most here in SoCal would prefer the glass window Targas'. There are many whom have posted here on this board claiming production numbers they have heard through
unaudited sources. I would only guess that if Porsche really needed to know the answer to this ambiguous question, they could spend too much $$ to dig through archives and records
to figure this out. However, this has never been done , consequently, there is NO audited factual record for those of us who would like to know. The mitigating factor is currently, we cannot say for sure how many of these 1969 MY SWT's are still living on this planet. It is ALL heresy....heresy .

Thats' as much as I know, and I have spent way too much time and effort trying to get accountablity from Porsche. Even offering World Cup Soccer tickets as a Nuisance fee for just looking and to find out.

Jules: You're very good at your craft, however, Porsche was NOT an empirical formula company. They just wanted to sell cars, make $$, and to use parts from previous MY cars on newer cars: IE: the aluminum rear deck lid. I know now these items seem ridiculously important, but in 1960's it was trivial.

[911T1971]

There is no question that 1969 SWT's were sold (and produced) in very few numbers as they were now essentially 2 seater-cars.

However and as asked by the initiater of this thread, its interesting to know that indeed option codes aka "order code" for MY 69 SWT existed, and well into MY 1971. Both choices were available at no extra cost for clients.

BTW and as stated in an earlier post, the last SWT was appearently built in May 1973, RoW.

[Jules Dielen]

Karim, that is the best information ever! thank you so much for posting. It looks like on the Kardex they used both '9356 SOFT WIN' (on the earlier MY69) and '9356 W. HECKSC' (on later production cars, with the W probably meaning 'Weiche') (or 9316 for RoW cars) for the soft window option early on. From what I have have learned now, (gathered with Karim's input), there are quite a few more than 6 or 8 SW Targas and a few that are claimed to be but have 9354 or 9355 as an option, which would indicate a fixed rear window.

Curt, I know the Kardex isn't the bible but I have no idea what other sources there would be to get more information on these 'critical dilemmas'. just kidding...

Jules

[LongRanger]

. . . Heres' what I've learned

. . . There are many whom have posted here on this board claiming production numbers they have heard through
unaudited sources. I would only guess that if Porsche really needed to know the answer to this ambiguous question, they could spend too much $$ to dig through archives and records to figure this out. However, this has never been done , consequently, there is NO audited factual record for those of us who would like to know. The mitigating factor is currently, we cannot say for sure how many of these 1969 MY SWT's are still living on this planet. It is ALL heresy....heresy . . .

Hmmm. Another thread . . .

. . .

Green on black
VIN = 119310176
Eng# = ?
Trans# = ?
Mileage = ?

. . . The Porsche 1969 Soft Window Targa is a very rare classic car. The factory states that there were only 12 of these cars produced Worldwide. There have been sightings of later versions of the SWT, but these car were by “special order” only. Of the 12 1969 SWT’s produced, we only know of (5) 1969 911”S” SWT’s. We know there is 1 Red, 1 Black, 1 white , 1 silver, and lastly …1 Irish Green. These “S” Soft Windows could be THE most collectable of production Porsches . . .

. . . Soft window targas have been discovered by early 911 cognoscenti and become the darling of this emerging group of highly involved 911 collectors. One fact remains with this car, and that there is NOT another one ( 1969 911S SWT ) in the world. When you factor in the other reality that there are only 5 “esses”, makes this car very collectable and special . . .

Email: curtisaa . . .

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-911s-swt.html

I guess production numbers depend on whether you're buying --- or selling . . . huh?





. . . or what a difference 3 years can make?

[LongRanger]

here is #2! 0231 is officially a SWT?

Another thread --- see post #24-25 . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...92-Targa/page3

A 30-year owner, too --- congratulations!

Any details or stories to share?

And where did you find it? --- for sale

[beh911]

JP (LivefromNY)'s 69S SWT kardex does not mention 9356... then again, his car had some numbering issues at birth, so probably not a reliable example. Maybe he will post it or allow me to do so.

While I knew 9356 was an option code I had never seen it until Jules kardex posts. Any more to share there ?

I think there are far more 69 SWTs produced than we realize, accept, and perpetuate with the 1 of "insert single digit" references all over the place...