Early 911 engine type 901/01

[Ronnie_B]

Hi- New member here. About 27 years ago I parted out an early (Very early!) 911 and kept the engine and transmission. The crankcase has 901/01 and 1099 stamped in it behind the strut, with *912057* stamped on it. I seem to remember it has KD in front of that number- I can check and update Tuesday night. IIRC the heads are 65 and so is the transmission. It has a pair of webers with the old Bosch distributor.

The engine was complete and running 27 years ago- I recently took it apart to clean everything and determine exactly what I have. The crankshaft looks like a fully counterweighted unit, and the pistons have the oil ring below the wrist pin. I seem to remember someone telling me that KD meant a factory replacement engine. I have reached dead-ends with determining the provenance of this engine, and any help would be appreciated!

I have regretted not being able to keep and restore THAT car!
Of course there's also a story about a Speedster that was laying upside down in mud in the Bonnet-Carre spillway (Norco, Louisiana)back then too....

Thanks in advance!
Ronnie

[redrobin911]

davep is your man on this forum - he'll be able to help you - you could look at his thread Type 901/xx Engine Build #'s

[NeunElf]

I checked your engine number against the table in the little spec book (reprinted in Brett Johnson's The 911 & 912 Porsche, A Restorer's Guide to Authenticity and Stoddard Catalogs) and it's "interesting."

According to the spec booklet, the highest numbered 901/01 engine is supposed to be 907000. The highest numbered engine in that engine number sequence is supposed to be 912050, a 901/06 engine from 1967. After that, the engine numbers got a leading digit to identify it's type ("normals" had a 3, 911S engines had a 4 and 911T engines has a 2). So, if all there is to know about early 911 engines is in that table, then your engine is seven after the last engine...

This is definitely a question for the real experts. Maybe the rules were really different for KD engines.



All the 901/01 engines were supposed to have originally had Solex carburetors. Does your engine have a plate bolted on where the tandem fuel pump would have mounted over the left camshaft? The earliest 901/01 engines also had center-lubricated camshafts and a flywheel with a 2.5 gear tooth modulus (the same as 6 volt 356s and VWs). Of course all these parts are separate from the crankcases.

I'm looking forward to hearing from the real experts on this.

[Ronnie_B]

I checked and there is definitely a KD prefix before the "Star" 912057 "Star". If I recall the KD meant a factory replacement engine, I am not sure. The heads are 65 dated IIRC and it has Webers. I think the cam boxes are later, as well. Could the KD mean factory rebuild/repair? That might explain the updated cam boxes.

What is interesting is my build number 1099 falls before engine 901238/1138 which is 11/64 production according to the sources I found here. My engine serial number 912057 would be much later, after the last 67 coupe number engine number 912050.

1- Would this build number then indicate a 64 or a 65 crankcase?
2- Was it was factory installed/provided for a 67 car?

I am going to pull all the parts out for pictures this weekend. My interest at this time will be to sell the engine and transmission to help fund another car. Any further help or suggestions is greatly appreciated, and thanks!

[NeunElf]

My understanding is that "KD" indicated a replacement engine. I've heard the German words for which KD is an abbreviation, but I don't recall them.

If you go to the Early 911S Forum thread Type 901/xx Engine Build #'s or the similar thread at Pelican Third engine ID number stamped on case you'll see that for most 901/01 engines, the build number was the engine number minus 900100 (the first engine number was 900101 with the build number 1).

The Type 901/xx Engine Build #'s thread shows that relationship held up to about engine # 903614 with build number 3515 (the difference is 900099). The difference between the engine number and build number decreased to 900079 by the last engine number in the list, 903900 with build number 3821.

The engine with build number 1099 should be 901199 given the relationship of engine numbers and build numbers that held up to ~ build number 3500 (it seems some of the build numbers corresponded to 901/20 racing engines).

All I can say is that the numbers on your engine just don't add up. Maybe there's some expert on this forum that knows the rules for KD engines.

[Sun888]

KD (usually) = Kundendienst = customer service

[pss]

I checked and there is definitely a KD prefix before the "Star" 912057 "Star". If I recall the KD meant a factory replacement engine, I am not sure. The heads are 65 dated IIRC and it has Webers. I think the cam boxes are later, as well. Could the KD mean factory rebuild/repair? That might explain the updated cam boxes.

What is interesting is my build number 1099 falls before engine 901238/1138 which is 11/64 production according to the sources I found here. My engine serial number 912057 would be much later, after the last 67 coupe number engine number 912050.

1- Would this build number then indicate a 64 or a 65 crankcase?
2- Was it was factory installed/provided for a 67 car?

I am going to pull all the parts out for pictures this weekend. My interest at this time will be to sell the engine and transmission to help fund another car. Any further help or suggestions is greatly appreciated, and thanks!

Can you see the cast dates on the case? These are to be found directly under the engine number in a small bay behind the engine mounting plate, one on the left crank case and one on the right. I agree with Jim it looks to be a early 1967 case, but should really be a 901/06 engine then.

[superelfje]

If the engine would have been an replacement engine the letters before the star would have read "AT" wich means aus tausch. A "KD" engine is a Kunden Dienst engine and is built especially fo a custumer to his specs. So that can be anything from race to rally.
Succes with the search!
Chris

[PMNorris]

I'd be very interested in seeing a bit more evidence here. I find this a little suspicious, but would love to be proven wrong.

[Ronnie_B]

PMNorris- suspicious of what????

The left crankcase half has a very clear 64. The right is not very legible- looks like 65. The two numerals look very similar, but I see a small break in the loop where it should be for a 5. The top side looks a little more square than the first digit.

I noticed the 64 has 12 dots and the 65 has 1- Dec 64 and Jan 65, respectively?