1970 911S - how much does provenance contribute to value?

[jussy1254]

Provenance and history are very separate. normally good provenance comes with good history.
Bonhams are bringing to sale on the 26th of JUne 2 1973 911Ss. They have a 73 911S that previously belonged to British Pop artist Richard Hamilton, infact he bought it new and then left it to his son who has had it restored and is now selling it. It is estimated in the GBP 250'000 - GBP 300'000 range. Bonhams also have a sepia brown 73 911S which is estimated at GBP 150'000 - GBP 190'000. Both are in lovely condition. So GBP 100'000 ($160'000) premium just for the Pop Art connection. And Richard Hamilton is no Warhol or Lichtenstein.
So good provenance brings a good premium. Full history will certainly add 10-15%.

[pu911rsr]

So unless I'm missing something- the OP is stating he knows the ownership history- he is not stating the owners are famous folks. Value is largely determined by condition- after that the more documentation the better but I don't see how it significantly impacts values any more than having a complete service history- which will generally contain owners names as well.
Phil

[mhackney]

That is correct, I know who the owners were and they are not famous. The point is that I have very detailed documentation for nearly 45 years - much more than simple service history. It really is a fascinating read and to an enthusiast, really paints a unique picture on how a "normal" but obviously well loved car traveled through the decades. It's like a biography.

[beh911]

That is correct, I know who the owners were and they are not famous. The point is that I have very detailed documentation for nearly 45 years - much more than simple service history. It really is a fascinating read and to an enthusiast, really paints a unique picture on how a "normal" but obviously well loved car traveled through the decades. It's like a biography.

I am the second owner of a car that was owned for 42 years by a friend of mine who is no longer here.

While I don't attach a monetary value to the complete documentation on the car, I do know everything about it due to its continuous paper trail. I find the history interesting as it gives life to the car.

I have the rental car receipts from when he would drive the car from NC to Brumos FL back in the 70s, staying overnight so he could get the best service on the MFI. No one knew what they were doing where he lived. I also have a copy of a thank you letter from the head of Brumos service for the case of German home brew sent as a token of his appreciation for good service.

What's that worth? I don't know. But it makes me want to find other cars that have a "life". Many cars come out of restorations with unknown pasts. And worse, there are great cars sold by dealers that have their "continuous paper trails" culled to hide the not so great moments in a car's history.

For me, I would place a premium on your car because of its documentation.

So what maximizes value in your mind as a buyer? I'm not sure it's things like the shiniest paint or best restoration. Sometimes it's just letting the car be itself and tell its story.

[mhackney]

bah911 - thank you! You get it! I think people really need to see this level of documented history to fully appreciate the story it tells about the car and owner(s). It brings the car to life in a way that just looking at the finished product can't possibly.

cheers,
Michael

[Richardnew]

Just so we're all clear here. Provenance is the chronology of the ownership, custody or location of a historical object. In our case here it's the chronology of ownership. The term was originally used in relation to works of art, but is now used in similar senses in a wide range of fields, including archaeology, paleontology, archives, manuscripts, printed books.

In other words provenance and history are basically the same thing. My car has provenance. So does your car. How important the provenance is becomes a separate discussion. Several of the folks here have a very detailed history - or provenance. Is that history significant? The buyer has to make that determination.

Richard Newton

[boxster03]

I think it is very important as you write your screen play about the car's story - I look forward to seeing it in 3D on an IMAX screen

[Silverbullit]

Thought "For Sale" posts needed to state a price??

[mhackney]

Silverbullit, I had posted a version of this earlier this week that was very sales-like without a price. I exchanged messages with the moderator and emphasized that I was trying to establish what, if any, value there is in very detailed documented history and provenance. I stripped out all the particulars about the car to focus on this perspective. That's what's here. When and if I am ready to sell, I will post with a stated price but I'm not there yet.

Regards,
Michael

[72targa]

^^^^^^^ Correct.