Some great discussion points here. As all of the last 3 posters have stated - there's far more to it than just adding RS flares. Good luck with your decision. And take your time!
Some great discussion points here. As all of the last 3 posters have stated - there's far more to it than just adding RS flares. Good luck with your decision. And take your time!
Kiwi
1972 911S
1967 912
1959 356A Conv D
Early S Registry # 306
Hello all, and thanks for your input. To answer a few questions: My car is not original. It was originally silver (per the Porsche Certificate) but at some point, an owner had it painted maroon.....and it was not a great paint job, as it is badly faded. I have found two engines that I am considering, both naturally aspirated, twin plug engines, one 3.4 liters and one 3.5 liters. Either makes over 300 Hp. And either engine is priced less than a quality rebuild of the existing 2.2 T engine.
My hope for the car is for once it it completed to be somewhere between John Wilhoit's 911T Hot Rod, Paul Rodelo's silver 911T, and the red 911 RGruppe car that was built by Jeff Smith, and is now owned by Dario Franchitti. All extremely amazing cars. And I know there are more cars similar to these, so my intent is not to leave cars out. These are simply cars whose owners I have met, and I have looked at their cars in person.
My son is 24, has a promising career with a website design company in Irvine, CA, and is engaged to a lovely young lady. And while the cost of building the car is not insignificant, 15 years before I retired, I was fortunate enough to have a secondary retirement account with the express intent of using the money to play with my cars. And, for the last 10 years, I have been buying parts to go on this car. I don't have everything, but I have a decent stash.
So, to drill down on my question, have you guys sold or heard of cars selling that were quality, modified long hood cars selling over the last few years? If so, can you share the details on the cars, and the selling prices?
Thanks again. You guys are great!
Perry
Last edited by nckzck; 08-28-2015 at 06:48 PM. Reason: spelling errors
1970 911T
1972 De Tomaso Pantera
1997 993 Carrera 6-Speed (Gone but not forgotten)
How receptive would the forum be to starting a sticky in the for sale section for cars that are for sale, or have been sold that are modified or clone cars? It might be quite interesting to keep track of "R" and "RS" clones, R gruppe cars, and other modified long hood 911's to document value?
1970 911T
1972 De Tomaso Pantera
1997 993 Carrera 6-Speed (Gone but not forgotten)
Really nice well built hot rods sell for $100-150k, probably about the cost to build one these days - it's a cost not an investment-
phil
Early S Junkie # 658
Are you asking for the value of your car in 20-30 years? That may be a little tough.
I have been asked the same question for 40 years and my answer is still the same....
I would build it as you like and enjoy it...If you like it, chances are others will like it too, enough to pay back your investment.
I have never built a Porsche that I lost money on even though that was never the plan....
I have friends that spend 50-75k on a American street rod and sell them for peanuts and then they do it all over again....with a big grin.
We are fortunate that our hobby isn't like most others that have little or no return on the investment.
JM.02
H
Hey Harvey,
No crystal balling.....I was hoping members would share knowledge of recently sold (the last 12 or so months) to establish a reference of current value for nicely modified cars, not future value. And I agree with your sentiments. Modifications done in good taste with quality parts at least won't diminish the value of the car. I just remember so many cars in the seventies and eighties where guys took an early car and "modernized" them or turned them into slant nose clones, and killed the value of early cars.
I will be ordering RS flares through a Porsche dealer (Anyone have a suggestion which dealer might have the best price??). And so, I will start down the slippery slope of modifying my car.
And I too have friends that have done the american hot rod builds, and lost a bunch of money when selling them. We all are very fortunate, as the prices of long hood cars has gone wild over the last 8-10 years.
1970 911T
1972 De Tomaso Pantera
1997 993 Carrera 6-Speed (Gone but not forgotten)
I like the idea of having a sticky for modified cars in the cars for sale section as an interesting reference point. However, I am 100% confident that I won't get back the cost of modifying my car, but like the American Hot Rodders, I've never considered the resale value when starting my next project.
If you're buying a second hand engine, then make sure its in good running condition with decent compression. You don't want to buy an expensive engine only to find out there's something seriously wrong with it.
Modified cars are really difficult to value. Each one is unique. Also, the market for modified cars is very small.
We used to have a basic rule for race cars. Race cars were worth about half of what you put into it. That's changed a little over the years but not much. If the race car has great provenance then all bets are off. Provenance changes everything.
I suspect that's true of modified cars as well.
Think about the hot rod that Dario Franchitti bought. Once he put his ass in the seat the value shot way up. Can you use that as a indicator of what your car is worth? Hardly.
Then we have Magnus. He slaps some paint on the cars, Makes a great video and then sells them for stupid money. Marketing overcomes everything. I would bet he spends more money on marketing than he puts into his cars.
If you're thinking about the value of your 911 maybe you should just leave it alone? It's really difficult to come out of the experience financially whole. Now, if you have an extra $50,000 sitting around you can have a whole lot of fun.
Richard Newton
Porsche Choices
Richard,
I agree with your thoughts that a well known car is going to draw an elevated price tag. Look at Steve McQueen's 911 Turbo selling for 1.95 million! And we have seen other cars tied to celebrities, like Magnus, selling for big money. My interest is in well done cars (like Jeff Smith's red car) what they sold for before being owned by a celebrity. It would be a matter of us as sellers (and some may be very private, and thus, reluctant to share) sharing with the forum what their cars sold for on the private market. But, there is enough traffic done publicly, whether on eBay, Bring a Trailer or auction sites to assemble a decent collection of cars to determine value. If anything, members could use the collection to set the agreed value of their cars with their insurance companies. Here are a couple that are on eBay now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262021792782...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191675913933...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
and at the top end of the spectrum:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301711817127...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
And it is not in the cards for me to restore my car to perfect stock condition. After really looking into it, I see it being the same price to restore it as to modify it to my liking. And I have at least 20 more years of fun driving left in me. That being said, I bought an engine today. I already heard it run, but it will be put on a dyno in the next few weeks to confirm numbers.
1970 911T
1972 De Tomaso Pantera
1997 993 Carrera 6-Speed (Gone but not forgotten)
Two of the prettiest cars that I know of are that of Chuck Miller and our beloved Roger Grago (RIP). Both had flares added. Back in the day nobody cared and besides it was C O O L !
I've always liked flares myself. A friend has been badgering me to add them to the Mexico Blue car. It's kind of hard to do after it has survived 41 years but who knows?
It's a slippery slope and imho, the flares are the easy part.
Early S Registry #235
rgruppe #111