Interior experts needed - floor mat/carpet

[Michael Winters]

This week I should get some pictures of the floor panel of car 303371.
This is a original non restored car.
Should tell us a little bit more about the carpet hold on snaps welded on the floor.
This car has rubber front and back mats from pictures I received earlier.
Could be that the carpet has been replaced by rubber mats but then the hold on snaps still has to be there.

[Michael Winters]

I have received some pictures of the unrestored car 303371.
The owner removed the rubber mats to see if there are some signs of carpet hold on snaps that are coming through the floor isolation.
But there were no carpet hold on snaps and the floor is original.
So this car has rubber mats + rubber tunnel

With the unrestored car sold by Albion Cars (I think somewhere produced in september 1965) I found the same materials.
Rubber mats + rubber tunnel and also no carpet hold on snaps.

With both cars I did not see the kardex because it got lost during the time.

A question to the experts:
Could it be that you could chose between rubbers mats or carpet for the BY65 MY66 cars?
And depending if you choose for rubber mats or carpet that your tunnel was also made out of the same material?
And only if you choose for carpet, that there were hold on snaps on the floor?

Pictures of car 303371

[Michael Winters]

Nobody any idea?
Would be helpful,

Thanks

[Michael Winters]

Today I saw a unrestored car BY65 MY66 with also a rubbers mats + rubber tunnel.
When investigating the interior, I saw that there was a part number on the rubber tunnel : 902.551.411.20
You can see the number on the right side of the picture
This is a 912 number.
Could it be that a customer could chose for a rubber interior and that 912 interior was used then?
Because the last couple of cars that I saw also had a rubber interior without carpet hold on snaps.

[Alaskan911]

Hi Michael. I am new to this forum and learning about these early Porsche's, but I see that my father's car was built very closely to yours. I believe it has the original floor pan, so when I get a chance I will take a look at the car and see if I can find whether or not my car has the floor snaps you are inquiring about.

Josh

[CDOUGLEHMAN]

Today I saw a unrestored car BY65 MY66 with also a rubbers mats + rubber tunnel.
When investigating the interior, I saw that there was a part number on the rubber tunnel : 902.551.411.20
You can see the number on the right side of the picture
This is a 912 number.
Could it be that a customer could chose for a rubber interior and that 912 interior was used then?
Because the last couple of cars that I saw also had a rubber interior without carpet hold on snaps.

Whole we are on the subject what is the material under the rubber matts and is it glued in?

[Michael Winters]

Josh,

Nice to meet you!
Indeed 303384 and 303381 is very close.
I have send you a email.
We can have further contact by mail.
Thanks for checking this!

Michael

Hi Michael. I am new to this forum and learning about these early Porsche's, but I see that my father's car was built very closely to yours. I believe it has the original floor pan, so when I get a chance I will take a look at the car and see if I can find whether or not my car has the floor snaps you are inquiring about.

Josh

[NeunElf]

Today I saw a unrestored car BY65 MY66 with also a rubbers mats + rubber tunnel.
When investigating the interior, I saw that there was a part number on the rubber tunnel : 902.551.411.20
You can see the number on the right side of the picture
This is a 912 number.
Could it be that a customer could chose for a rubber interior and that 912 interior was used then?
Because the last couple of cars that I saw also had a rubber interior without carpet hold on snaps.

It's certainly possible, even probable, that Porsche would supply 912 rubber floor mats in a 911 on request. The MY 66 accessories price list doesn't usually describe many of the fancy things as "standard" on the 911, the expression used is "(ohne Mehrpreis bei 911)/(without additional price on 911)."

Your photograph only shows rubber floor mats and the sound deadening material/insulation. What sort of carpeting does that car have? Velour? Squareweave/bouclé? Something else?


I personally don't have unlimited faith that cars I might see today are exactly the way they left the factory 50+ years ago. Many would have had damage repairs or worn surfaces replaced. There's also a tendency for "unrestored" to be claimed even about cars which have been repainted, etc. If the fuel lines weren't changed the car would probably have been consumed by fire.

Unless you have assurance from the original owner (who should be 70+ years old today) that the car was delivered with rubber floormats, or factory documentation like a Kardex, Certificate of Authenticity, or original delivery paperwork you can't be certain that's the original floor covering.

I read somewhere that the wool velour didn't wear very well so Porsche discontinued its use (it might just be true). Perhaps an early owner needed to replace the carpeting after just a few years and decided to get something more durable, or less expensive.

[Michael Winters]

Jim,

Thanks for your reply!
I can follow your in your thinking.
It is really funny that from 3 cars which are called total original these have rubber tunnel and rubber floor mats without carpet hold on snaps.

It may be possible indeed that during the lifetime of the car, the owner replaced the carpet by rubber.
But then I have a few questions:

1. I cannot imagine that they also replaced the centrale tunnel where the shifting boot and hand brake boot are on?
Because with the cars I have seen this is also rubber. Or could they have been replacing that?

2. So in your opinion every car came out of the factory with carpet mats and a carpet around the central tunnel?
Unless there was something written on the kardex.

3. What about the carpet hold on snaps. With car 303371 / 303384 these cars have original floor panels which are 100% certain and these don't have the carpet hold on snaps welded on the floor.
Could it be that Porsche made also carpets but without the hold on snaps to click on the floor plan? Where these carpets in fabric with rubber on the downside to stay at their place?
Just are figuring out if I have these hold on snaps on 303381, but I don't think so.

What do you mean with sort of carpeting? Do you mean in the luggage compartment?

Thanks,

It's certainly possible, even probable, that Porsche would supply 912 rubber floor mats in a 911 on request. The MY 66 accessories price list doesn't usually describe many of the fancy things as "standard" on the 911, the expression used is "(ohne Mehrpreis bei 911)/(without additional price on 911)."

Your photograph only shows rubber floor mats and the sound deadening material/insulation. What sort of carpeting does that car have? Velour? Squareweave/bouclé? Something else?


I personally don't have unlimited faith that cars I might see today are exactly the way they left the factory 50+ years ago. Many would have had damage repairs or worn surfaces replaced. There's also a tendency for "unrestored" to be claimed even about cars which have been repainted, etc. If the fuel lines weren't changed the car would probably have been consumed by fire.

Unless you have assurance from the original owner (who should be 70+ years old today) that the car was delivered with rubber floormats, or factory documentation like a Kardex, Certificate of Authenticity, or original delivery paperwork you can't be certain that's the original floor covering.

I read somewhere that the wool velour didn't wear very well so Porsche discontinued its use (it might just be true). Perhaps an early owner needed to replace the carpeting after just a few years and decided to get something more durable, or less expensive.

[NeunElf]

Jim,

Thanks for your reply!
I can follow your in your thinking.
It is really funny that from 3 cars which are called total original these have rubber tunnel and rubber floor mats without carpet hold on snaps.

It may be possible indeed that during the lifetime of the car, the owner replaced the carpet by rubber.
But then I have a few questions:

1. I cannot imagine that they also replaced the centrale tunnel where the shifting boot and hand brake boot are on?
Because with the cars I have seen this is also rubber. Or could they have been replacing that?

That’s a good point, but, maybe something was spilled that damaged the carpet on the gearshift tunnel, too. Or, maybe the replacement mats came in a set including the tunnel mat and people decided to use it.

2. So in your opinion every car came out of the factory with carpet mats and a carpet around the central tunnel?
Unless there was something written on the kardex.

All the indications are that velour carpets were standard in early 911s as part of an interior finished in expensive and luxurious materials. I don’t think that Porsche would have randomly delivered less.

I would expect if a new 911 owner came to pick up his new car and found it lacking some of those luxurious materials he’d have been upset. And, if such a mistake somehow got to a new owner it would have been fairly easy for the dealer to install the correct carpets.

With a 50+ year-old car, it’s possible that 25 years ago the then-current owner needed to replace the carpet and thought—at that time—that rubber floormats were “correct.”

Now, maybe there were some markets where Porsche normally delivered rubber mats in 911s because of harsh conditions. Perhaps in North Africa where there would be blowing sand. But, I’ve never heard of that actually being the case.

So, if a customer requested rubber mats in a 911, I would expect Porsche to record that on the Kardex. Now, maybe—just maybe—a Kardex wouldn’t note the lack of an option even if that option was “ohne Mehrpreis bei 911” but that strikes me as a bad business practice. Porsche was often odd, but seldom foolish.

3. What about the carpet hold on snaps. With car 303371 / 303384 these cars have original floor panels which are 100% certain and these don't have the carpet hold on snaps welded on the floor.
Could it be that Porsche made also carpets but without the hold on snaps to click on the floor plan? Where these carpets in fabric with rubber on the downside to stay at their place?
Just are figuring out if I have these hold on snaps on 303381, but I don't think so.

Those carpet snaps seem to have come and gone and come again and gone again. There’s no trace of them in my car, 301382 which seems to have its original floor (the car spent its life in a dry climate and the floor has plenty of evidence of having banged over things during the past 52 years). Maybe 303371 / 303384 were built in a period when Porsche didn’t use snaps.

What do you mean with sort of carpeting? Do you mean in the luggage compartment?

Thanks,

I was asking whether the carpet around the floor mats was 911-style velour or 912-style squareweave/bouclé. Perhaps the carpet type would be matched to the mats. But, I just realized the earlier photos were apparently the same car and it looks more like 911-style velour (I’m not 100% certain).

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The big point I want to make is that I would never trust that a 50+ year-old car is totally original and unchanged just because the current owner says it is and the condition implies it’s ready to be restored. I’d want to see documentation that it really came from the factory with the things it has now or speak to the original owner—if he’s still around.

When a 50+ year-old car has unusual features that make it different from all the other cars I have to believe it’s more likely that it was changed sometime during those 50+ years than that it left the factory “different” and with no record of the factory making it different.

I have a friend who (with her mother) inherited the 1955 Speedster her late father bought back in 1961—she’s been with that car her whole life but I’m pretty sure she’s told me things about the car that differ from what her father told me.