72/73 rear spoiler option #

[911T1971]

Here is now proof on option 473.


1972 Pricelist and PTD, listing option 473 as Spoiler, optional on T and E and standard on S:
(Note to perry911: muffler skirt is option 427. What is unique on option 473 is that it was standard on S but optional on other models E/T (1972) & T (1973), making it easy to confuse on a COA as an added option, when actually it was an item which needed to be added on a lower equipped model, being not an 2.4S, which always had it anyway.)





Pricelist 1973 listing option 473 as Spoiler, optional on T and standard on E and S:





Of all 1973 pricelist I have , none however defines if its a front or rear Spoiler...but I found one.
Swiss Pricelist, written in German and French.
While in German is written Spoiler, in french its "Deflecteur avant": avant > front
This confirms option 473 "Spoiler" is always for a front mounted one.
Standard on E and S and optional for 1973 911T.

[NZVW]

Mr Foty,
You are impossible.
Based on your novice belief, everyone who ordered the additional optioned spoiler, code 473 for their E or T in 1972 and those who ordered it in 1973 for their T model 911 failed to receive an RS Ducktail.
PS I friggin cracked up with laughter when I saw your post about wanting an article in our ESSES Mag.
We enjoy the articles because they are fantastic articles and not Fantasy Novels,
Mark

Yes Karim its what Ive posted all along

The thread is to SHOW me the option for a RS rear spoiler ,, which from no one being able to provide, was not an option at all unless via the factory via 'tourist delivery' from what I have been able to assess
Mark

[911T1971]

NCVW, Do you really have period proof for your statement/assestment re PTD ?
Do you know what PTD stands for and do you read those documents?
Where does "appear" that clients could get a Ducktail directly at the factory, not "ticking an option box", as you state.

PTD is nothing more than picking up the Car at the factory, driving around in Europe and shipping it back to the US, all prepaid when ordered.
The car under PTD was still ordered in the US in advance including its specd. and was, prior to be picked up in Gernany, built according to clients specifications. There was no "pick up and adding a RS ducktail at the factory'.

-

One was not able to pick up/order any RS ducktail for any 1973 model via PTD, except buying the car which it first came equipped with, the limited edition (first batch of 500) 2.7litre RS.
No proof whatsoever the opposite was possible, at least not for Model Year 1973.
I recall however one exception, a late production 2.4 911S Targa, metallicblue, for US dealer Vasek Polak. If my memory is correct, he also had wider fenders and track, larger wheels, RS front spoiler and a ducktail. Probably a one-off special order, but not PTD.

Here are period document when the RS first promoted, fall 1972.
Pls beware that the 1973 2.7RS, being a homologation Race car, was initially NOT imported to the US due to strict EPA rules and no PTD was available for any potential US customers.
Anyhow, beside a ducktail, front spoiler, wider tracks and tires, all made aerodynamic sense if the full package was on the car, the RS.

Only in the 80ies one could finally order a rear spoiler without the Turbo engine for a 3.2l, or even the full monty (tracks, tires etc), called "Turbo look".




Mind you, the limited edition 2.7RS was a very late (marketing) changeover of what was planned a top-of-the-line 1973 2.7S, seen here on 1973 brochure lineup, yellow car far left. It not even had a Ducktail, but wider track and fenders. That 2.7S still exist today.

[911T1971]

I found finally what was a rear spoiler description on a 1973 Model.

This swiss Pricelist below gives indications for the RS only.
It also said Delivery approximately Dec 1972.
Option 472 (Which is Touring) included, among many other equipments a "engine lid with Spoiler".

This is the only proof of a rear spoiler description and interesting, it details its location very precise. ("Motorraumdeckel mit Spoiler).

It cannot be found in any option paper for any 1973 model T/E/S, PTD or not.

[NZVW]

Karim thats very cool.
So Option 472 was available for 73S?? including duck tail motor spoiler and various mods including 15mm stabilizer bar wider wheels etc.
And not a cheap option either at Fr 2750
Well done and thank you for all the research you.
Mark

[911T1971]

Mark, no: There is a misunderstanding:
Option M472 was ONLY for 73RS. As seen on the specific pricelist for this model above.
One of two options (M471 and M472) available for the base homologation race car for Groupe 4, the 911 RS


My point is:

-that any option written as "Spoiler" on COA/Kardex always means the Front Spoiler, option 473.
It was standard on 72/73 S and 73 E optional on 72&73 T.

-that any option written as "Spoiler on decklid" on COA/Kardex always means the rear Spoiler, part of option package M472.
It was NOT available on any 72&73 T E or S.
This option package was optional ONLY for the 73RS.

There was no 73S with option 472.

[911MRP]

I don't doubt Karim who backs his assertions with research in his impressive collection of reference material.

I doubt the option for TES rear spoiler.

Let's not overlook the fact that the spoiler designed and used in for the limited edition homologation model in MY 1973 for the SC RS was turned down by the chairman of the Federal German Licencing Authority. His concerns were on the grounds of being potentially dangerous in event of an accident such as a motorbike hitting rear. Due to timing of holidays retesting was not possible to convince him that worked given the timelines needed for the project and homologation schedule. Consultations were made in germsny about the state by state licencing but in the end it was clear that securing a general road licence in Germany would not be possible before the RS launch. TÜV did not have such concerns. The practical step taken for RS was that in Germany the general road licence was obtained for the SC Carrera RS without the rear spoiler and then got individual licences from TÜV for German delivery cars. There are stories of German market cars being delivered without spoiler fitted but delivered with the car and it being fitted to work around the problem.

The RS Book is clear that despite requests from customers asking for a ducktail to be fitted new to TES models and or retrofitted Due to difficulties in supplying spoilers to fulfil the RS homologation timescales they did not do this until after the supply was available to complete. There were known problems in making the RS spoilers to quality at rate required without diverting the supply. Costly time consuming rework was required in werke 1 on these panels-- on top of the already famously inefficient RS assembly process. The spoiler was also considered a distinctive USP referred to in press as "status symbol" of the RS model which was that year's top of range. Motorsport customers reportedly got first dibs on available spoilers beyond RS programme The idea of strap on pack for the rear grille was put to a patent application

With all this to contend with in the high profile RS programme going like the clappers to achieve homologation of 500 plus 500 doubt there was a rear spoiler option for TES -- although as with all things possible a few got fitted. Maybe later in MY when things were on track ?

Pretty sure I have seen evidence in catalogues of spoilers being offered by various aftermarket sources in 73 so customers keen for the RS look probly got them that that way. The RS style spoiler changes the car's characteristics (things such as the aero pressure point) but as mentioned in earlier post bolting on rear ducktail without knowledge of the dynamic impact is a questionable thing. Reportedly fitting rear spoiler even required factory sunroof strengthening on the RS. Personally not sure why somone would do it without front match and other RS spec things but folks often want "the look" and cleaner taillights.

Steve

[NZVW]

Can anyone provide me with an Option Number for a rear spoiler for 1973 year build please.

Mark

So long answer short is NO. No one so far can provide an option Number for the RS rear spoiler.Full Stop

[Cliff]

Did not the RS have different length trailing arms & placement points for them. This would affect the RS stability differently than the normal T,E, & S geometry, thus not getting the same desired results with a ducktail. .......cliff

[911MRP]

Later ones did Cliff. IIRC the vin/date was third series - change is in the parts catalogue with relevant chassis I think and probaly in a thread hereabouts if somone knows where to look.

I had lunch with a PO of my RS a couple of weeks ago and we discussed this particular RS modification (among many other things). He is a racer who has won class at Le Mans (not in a Porsche) as well as winning a European championship in a later Porsche so obviously I was very interested in his view on drivability. Suspension modification on RS rear was something he raised, not me. In his opinion the revised trailing arms on RS were for done by the factory to make then most of the extremes of very wide wheel and racing tyre for M491 and various evolutions from that ...but in doing so it was not good change to RS for more normal rim/tyres and for use on more general road /less extreme racing applications. He'd driven many variants including building and successfully racing RSR>935>special.

Nick Faure who won convincingly won the British prodsports championship driving a fairly standard road spec RS when model new back in 73 has also commented on this same point. Nick once wrote to me explaining that the well known RS M471 he used (predominantly) to win that series was not so good to drive after factory gave it the later revised RS rear suspension. Think it is mentioned by him in one of the references (Starkey?) too. He said at one point been reunited with the "RGO" car for a TV series. Nick has very strong reputation particularly for driving 911 cars of early 70s. In addition to getting a pair of RHD M471s from importer Porsche GB to race he was also entrusted by importer with one of the handful of the following year UK RHD 3.0 RS/R. Nick was the UK driver chosen demonstrate the 911 Turbo to UK market for its launch around that time. He too raced Le Mans etc. He had suspension comparators from when they were new. I've not driven the later rear RS setup but even if I had I'd defer to views of such experienced drivers on the merits or otherwise of factory rear suspension changes of 73 RS.

If an owner wants to put a spoiler on a 911 and play with the suspension then that is their prerogative of course. This is hardly new, a lot of knowledge has been gleaned on suspension and other changes in 45 years by many here -- but the thread was referring to option of adding RS rear ducktail to TES back in the day.

Back to that point: I've never seen RS spoiler as factory listed with option # other than it obviously being standard on RS back in 73. I've see plenty aftermarket ones added to rear of 911. As Karim explains M472 conversion order is a red herring as all 911744 had the spoiler as standard spec even allowing for the German workarounds (with just few original purchasers choosing to delete).

Not convinced it is the wisest of ideas put rear spoiler on TES in isolation but maybe others here know more/better. The French RS were not allowed RS front by their authorities in 73 so that market had S part iirc

Steve