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Thread: Spec Class for '64-'65 911s

  1. #1

    Spec Class for '64-'65 911s

    Interesting. Pretty darn cool! However I wonder what this is going to do to the value of these cars...

    https://petrolicious.com/articles/ea...ar-spec-racing

    John
    Last edited by John Straub; 06-06-2018 at 08:29 AM.
    1965 911 #301111, Red Book Vol 1 "Cover Car," owned 48 years.
    1967 911 #307347, bare-bones, some road wear, a little surface rust, and a few dents..., owned 8 years.
    1970 914/6GT, http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/image/68715183, (For Sale-On Hold, just accepted to Rennsport VI)owned 30 years.


    Photography Site: JohnStraubImageWorks.com

    Pushin' back the hands of time, "Along For The Ride" at, http://www.johnstraub.blogspot.com

    Registry #983
    R Gruppe #741

  2. #2
    You could always race them before. Over in UK they have been racing them at Goodwood-- here's a link to an old, but excellent, video. And the latest Goodwood vids are similarly illustrative of "turning right to go left." Enjoy

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/C8OVIgZaTug" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    1966 911 #304065 Irischgruen

  3. #3
    Porsche wrench/life coach Frank Beck's Avatar
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    John, what rock have you been under? lol

    There is a vast racing world that exists out there that has little to do with grass/shows or discussion about fasteners/details ad nauseam. This "new" series is just a spin on what has been going on for a very long time. Cool that it's getting press though.

    As far as values... I suspect they will continue to do what they've always done.


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  4. #4
    Frank, I remember seeing and reading about this several years ago in the Brit magazines. It looks like now they are taking it to different tracks. Not sure if they did that back then or it was only Goodwood. And they do drive the heck out of them!

    I remember selling Solex carb sets to guys over there. They were snapping them up.

    I agree, as far as values... And I think this will continue to push them.

    John
    Last edited by John Straub; 06-06-2018 at 08:29 AM.
    1965 911 #301111, Red Book Vol 1 "Cover Car," owned 48 years.
    1967 911 #307347, bare-bones, some road wear, a little surface rust, and a few dents..., owned 8 years.
    1970 914/6GT, http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/image/68715183, (For Sale-On Hold, just accepted to Rennsport VI)owned 30 years.


    Photography Site: JohnStraubImageWorks.com

    Pushin' back the hands of time, "Along For The Ride" at, http://www.johnstraub.blogspot.com

    Registry #983
    R Gruppe #741

  5. #5
    Klub Sport Challenge, too bad its long gone.

  6. #6
    SWB Porsche 911s which meet FIA Appendix K Requirements have been raced throughout Europe for many years. Cars have to comply with Homologation Form 183 and Appendix J of the Period. They typically race in the GTS category of Period F.

    The Peter Auto 2.0L Cup is a series of three races which is only open to 911s which have an HTP and meet the above regulations and is limited to 40 cars.

    In 2019 the number of races will possibly increase to five.

    I don't think many 'new' cars have been prepared but the value of 'ready to go' Racers will probably increase and difficult to find parts will almost certainly increase in value.

    I am not sure there will be much impact on the value of original 1965 cars as once these cars have been modified to a Race Spec they will be too expensive to put back to their original condition.

    The comments in the article with regard to spending being under control because ot is a 'one make' series needs to be judged against a background where successful cars can change hands for around $350K if not more.

    The leading contenders are building engines to rev to around 9000rpm costing at least $70k.

    Entry fees for the three race series is almost $8000 and I would expect that the leading cars engines are stripped and overhauled after every race.

    We are just starting to prepare a shell for the 2019 Season and have just completed all of the jig work and panel fit.

    We will start building the motor later in the year but don't expect to be competitive for the first couple of years and we are sure it will be really hard work to be halfway up the grid which is our initial objective.

  7. #7
    Cool, Chris!

    John
    1965 911 #301111, Red Book Vol 1 "Cover Car," owned 48 years.
    1967 911 #307347, bare-bones, some road wear, a little surface rust, and a few dents..., owned 8 years.
    1970 914/6GT, http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/image/68715183, (For Sale-On Hold, just accepted to Rennsport VI)owned 30 years.


    Photography Site: JohnStraubImageWorks.com

    Pushin' back the hands of time, "Along For The Ride" at, http://www.johnstraub.blogspot.com

    Registry #983
    R Gruppe #741

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by chris_seven View Post

    The leading contenders are building engines to rev to around 9000rpm costing at least $70k.

    * * *
    We will start building the motor later in the year but don't expect to be competitive for the first couple of years and we are sure it will be really hard work to be halfway up the grid which is our initial objective.
    Chris,

    What is the "State of the Art" there-- I assume you must use Solex carburetors- are you allowed to use 906 cams? Presumably if you are turning 9000 RPM you have lightened the reciprocating mass significantly.

    What are some of the TYPES of modifications being done by the front-runners? I am not asking you for SECRETS merely the general areas for improvement that might be interesting to those of us watching from across the pond.
    1966 911 #304065 Irischgruen

  9. #9
    I am not sure I know enough about front running engines from a 'SOTA' point of view as there is a great deal of investment in these engines and the companies building them are careful in what they reveal.

    I had a 901/01 in 2005 that had Solex Carbs, 906 cams but ran more or less standard rods and valve train and exhausts but apart from this I don't have enough reliable knowledge.

    We used it in a Rally Car and revved it to 8000 rpm and it was geared for 108mph in 5th by using a 6:29 Ring and Pinion.

    It was reputed to have produced 190BHP at 8000rpm but I was never given any real proof.

    I am not sure if engines currently rev to 9000 but they are getting closer and this is certainly the target being worked on in some quarters.

    I believe 906 cams are the benchmark although I am sure that some developments have occurred but no-one is talking. I think 906 cams are quite lazy and there must be some improvements.

    We are just starting to make billet cams and straight cut intermediate gears and we have been making lightweight vernier adjustable cam sprockets for around 3-4 years now and these parts are being used in some engines.

    We have re-built around 20 sets of Solex Carbs and have some idea of the jetting, venturi and emulsion tube specs. Some engine guys seem to use the vacuum enrichment circuit and others prefer it to be disabled and adjust jetting accordingly.

    Certainly tall intake trumpets provide a benefit and we make 85mm tall components.

    There are rumours of reduced diameter con rod pin diameters on cranks and 19mm diameter wrist pins being used with con rod weights of around 450 grammes but I am not sure if this is true.

    Contact breakers are an issue and we are developing a new baseplate to use some traditional Lucas Breakers that have 32oz springs that we used on Coventry Climax engines at 10 000 rpm without problems.

    Most engines seem to use Nikasil cylinders and I would like to use a cross-braced slipper piston with a very short pin if possible.

    We are also trying to develop beehive valve springs and we have ordered some hollow valves to try to reduce these masses and we have also designed a lightened 'Elephant's Foot' Adjuster with a Ti Lock Nut to complement the forged rockers we have produced for a few years now.

    There are some stunning exhaust systems being used and they seem to be really effective.

    I can't quite persuade myself that they are legal but I am sure it is my current lack of understanding that leads me to this conclusion.



    I hope the next 12 months will be interesting but the learning curve will be very, very steep.

  10. #10
    Senior Member RennTyp's Avatar
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    The main challenge with a 65 spec engine built to strict Period F rules are the 39 / 35 mm valve sizes. These are the limiting factor. Historically scrutineers / race organisers in Europe haven't focussed on valve sizes and as a result I suspect a lot of cars are running oversize. 2.0L Cup is a great new race series and to ensure it gets some momentum I think the organisers are overlooking strict compliance with some of the regs this year. With what looks like it will be an oversubscribed event next year I think they will be looking to be much stricter. A number of engine builders I have spoken to are already engaged in R&D. Should be interesting to see what they come up with. They should be commercially available (no factory teams yet!) and as a result not everything will stay secret.
    Early 911S Registry #888

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