Kardex 300739

[davep]

Kar. angel. am Karosse angeliefert am My opinion of this date is that it is the date the factory completed the car on the assembly line (column 2 in production book).
Ausgel.am Ausgeliefert am My opinion of this date is that it is the date the factory invoiced the car to the distributor.
Abnahme-Besch. Abnahme Bescheinigung My opinion of this date is that it is the date the car was delivered to the retail customer and warranty commenced.

So here we have the completion date, invoice date, and sale dates:

VIN	Kar.angel.am	Ausgel.am	Abnahme-Besch.
300005	1964 09 21 b		1964 10 20
300061	1964 11 02 a	1964 11 26	1964 11 27
300096	1964 11 20 a	1964 12 01	1964 12 09
300113	1964 11 20 e	1964 12 04	1965 03 09
300120	1964 12 09 c	1964 12 23	1965 01 16
300147	1964 12 07 d	1964 12 23	1965 03 30
300149	1964 12 01 c	1964 12 16	1964 12 22
300164	1964 12 02 c	1964 12 21	1964 01 04
300170	1964 11 27 b	1964 12 18	1964 12 18
300188	1965 01 04 g	1965 01 13	1965 01 13
300189	1964 12 15 b	1964 12 30	1964 12 30
300197	1964 12 14 f	1965 01 11	1965 01 23
300215	1964 12 21 a	1965 01 12	1965 06 18
300232	1964 12 22 g	1965 01 19	1965 11 16
300250	1965 01 07 d	1965 01 22	1965 01 27
300278	1965 01 14 e	1965 01 27	1965 02 03
300338	1965 01 22 g	1965 03 15	1965 05 07
300365	1965 01 28 f	1965 03 15

[moito]

Kar. angel. am Karosse angeliefert am My opinion of this date is that it is the date the factory completed the car on the assembly line (column 2 in production book).
Ausgel.am Ausgeliefert am My opinion of this date is that it is the date the factory invoiced the car to the distributor.
Abnahme-Besch. Abnahme Bescheinigung My opinion of this date is that it is the date the car was delivered to the retail customer and warranty commenced.

So here we have the completion date, invoice date, and sale dates:

VIN	Kar.angel.am	Ausgel.am	Abnahme-Besch.
300005	1964 09 21 b		1964 10 20
300061	1964 11 02 a	1964 11 26	1964 11 27
300096	1964 11 20 a	1964 12 01	1964 12 09
300113	1964 11 20 e	1964 12 04	1965 03 09
300120	1964 12 09 c	1964 12 23	1965 01 16
300147	1964 12 07 d	1964 12 23	1965 03 30
300149	1964 12 01 c	1964 12 16	1964 12 22
300164	1964 12 02 c	1964 12 21	1964 01 04
300170	1964 11 27 b	1964 12 18	1964 12 18
300188	1965 01 04 g	1965 01 13	1965 01 13
300189	1964 12 15 b	1964 12 30	1964 12 30
300197	1964 12 14 f	1965 01 11	1965 01 23
300215	1964 12 21 a	1965 01 12	1965 06 18
300232	1964 12 22 g	1965 01 19	1965 11 16
300250	1965 01 07 d	1965 01 22	1965 01 27
300278	1965 01 14 e	1965 01 27	1965 02 03
300338	1965 01 22 g	1965 03 15	1965 05 07
300365	1965 01 28 f	1965 03 15

David
where does it read kar.(karosserie = body) angeliefert?--this would mean that a unfinished(painted?) body was delivered(to the assembly line?) .

and what does the single letter after the angel. date stand for?..it`s not the color.
f.

[Jsottile]

David, I would be interested too in your research on kar.angel.am. It makes sense from what I have been told and maybe the letter designates an assembly line?

Not to highjack Bernd’s thread, I read your kardex as most of the experts have;

Ausgel.am = delivered by the factory, finished by factory, March 25, 1965
Abnahme-besch = delivered to buyer, “handler” = Dealer = Competition, Culver City June 2, 1965

Early on, these car were already sold, so warranty date was delivery date to buyer (dealer), and most likely the “wagenbesitzer” (wagon owner) picked the car up on or near this dealer delivery date. I would! If there was a big gap, say the car sat on the lot, the date of delivery to the actual owner should be listed next to Dr. Martin’s name for warranty purposes.

The “build date” would be approximately late Feb, 1965 as Bob mentioned. This can be verified by looking at the original build book. It does exist in the archive, I have pictures with it like a first prom date.

Back to high jacking. So according to a well-known ex- Director of the Porsche archive, the build book date was the start of the build process which included assigning major components, body, engine, transmission, radio, all the items listed with specific identification. As we can see, occasionally motors were swapped out, trannys were swapped and the like. So I would be interested in any documentation on Kar.angel.am.

As Bob mentioned, there is a bit of fuzziness on info from 55 years ago. I’m familiar with Davep’s first entry, so I know how difficult it can be to put all the pieces together. But let’s take a peek.

David is missing ausgel.am on 300005. The date as listed is 21-10-64. This makes no sense at all as it would imply the car was delivered to the “Handler” – dealer, before it was completed by the factory! This explains the big “?” on the kardex and the notation circa 21-10-64. This date is interesting but irrelevant because the dealer was WE or werks, a factory test car. Further, the first “wagenbesitzer” (wagon owner) was the “Press department” for the benefit of sales and given to (taken by) Huschke Von Hanstein for journalist to test drive.

There are quite a few other anomalies on the kardex. I was fortunate enough to talk to the original owner. It would not have been possible to decipher the meaning without that conversation. My point, there are many anomalies out there, talking to as many “old timers” as possible is the best way to get to the truth.

Hope to see many of you at the Hawk, Franks buying!

Jay
Luftkraft Gruppe

[HughH]

Jay
that is a great explanation on 300005, and I agree that it helps a lot to be able to talk to some "old timers" who wont be around forever to ask :-(
Just a thought on the delivery date being before it was finished .. that sort of happened with a number of cars that went to WE or PRESSE as that department was not only the "press" area that provided cars to journalists and other influencers to use but also was the "sport" department up until at least 1970.

I have kardexes of the monte carlo rally cars and other similar cars with the same dates, only one date in one or other space, and a couple like this one for Zasada's Monte Carlo car which looks like it was delivered to the customer 10 days before it was finished. In this case that may be correct if it was delivered to the PRESSE dept with "ohne engine and gearbox" ie no engine and gearbox as is noted on cars delivered to Werk1 for competition purposes in the 1970's and then they are completed in the competition department which was a part of the PRESSE department in the 60's

[Jsottile]

Very interesting Hugh, thanks for the insight, cool kardex. I like your "Foundation Member" number!

[davep]

Franz, the single letter after the date is the sequence # for that date. a=first, f=sixth completed that day. It helps me sort the list in the actual build order. Not sure where I got Kar.angel.am from; perhaps the Reutter delivery book, in which case it would be the wrong thing to use there. Still, the completion date always precedes the "invoice" date. If the factory was a little tardy, then the customer could have taken possession before the factory actually invoiced the distributor.

[Fred N.]

That's some great information on #300 739. Especially since I recently purchased this car! I just made my first post yesterday and now I find this post. You guys are amazing, so much knowledge. I just saw the engine today along with the carbs, didn't see the transmission but I believe it's in storage also. The original owner is still alive but he is in his 90's and I'm hesitant to contact him. I did call his son's house but got a message and I hung up. The car is in metal so it wouldn't be appropriate to show the original owner in that condition, could be traumatic at his age. The question is can I finish it in time to show him? I just took pictures of the engine number today and the other internal number including matching case halves and the casting date on the bottom of the carbs but I can't remember where I should post that info thread on this website. The car is pretty much complete with only a few items needed. I also took pictures of the engine number for car 300 830. Let me know where to post that info and I will do it right away.

Fred Nolte

[Jsottile]

Hi Fred, quite a coincidence. Welcome. Considering the title of this thread is your car, I would post away right here . Or start a new thread in "general info."

Look forward to it,

[Frank Beck]

The original owner is still alive but he is in his 90's and I'm hesitant to contact him. I did call his son's house but got a message and I hung up. The car is in metal so it wouldn't be appropriate to show the original owner in that condition, could be traumatic at his age.

Fred Nolte

Welcome to the community Fred.

Wouldn’t be appropriate to show him the car in bare metal... huh?

It’s just an old car Fred.

Not like you’re showing him nude pics of his wife. Maybe ask him if he would like to see the car as is?

But if you call I suggest that you not hang up if you get his PhoneMate.


Good luck.

[davep]

I just took pictures of the engine number today and the other internal number including matching case halves and the casting date on the bottom of the carbs but I can't remember where I should post that info thread on this website. I also took pictures of the engine number for car 300 830. Let me know where to post that info and I will do it right away.

Please try and get the casting dates on both halves from behind the crank pulley.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...Engine-Build-s