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Thread: BaT Case Study

  1. #31
    IMHO, $165,000 for a 912 hotrod is a pretty good day.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-porsche-911-9/
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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  2. #32
    I agree with Greg. I just sold the Ď61 Jolly for the 92 year old owner, a friend. After putting the buyer in touch with him to arrange payment details and pickup, he demanded proof of authenticity, additional photos (beyond the 100+ in the add), info on the original owner, and original bill of sale from the dealer. If I had all 57 years of documentation vice the 43 provided, itís likely that info too would have been in the add. The next highest bidder was $5k lower, and I was expecting no help from BaT, but I feel like the buyer had 7 days where he could have done anything he liked to verify before bidding. The buyer then declared he would send his guys to inspect it, and wire the payment once satisfied. Again, because I want my friend to receive full payment, and because I have zero doubt about itís authenticity, we are going along with this guyís wishes for now and hoping for a swift payment.

  3. #33
    Porsche wrench/life coach Frank Beck's Avatar
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    Sounds like a slimy dealer.

    Not that it would get much attention but I would post his shenanigans in the auction comment section. At least the people who were "watching" will get notification.
    Warning! If I crap on you itís not on purpose.

    I often buy parts I think I need but find out I already own.

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  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jc4me2 View Post
    I agree with Greg. I just sold the ‘61 Jolly for the 92 year old owner, a friend. After putting the buyer in touch with him to arrange payment details and pickup, he demanded proof of authenticity, additional photos (beyond the 100+ in the add), info on the original owner, and original bill of sale from the dealer. If I had all 57 years of documentation vice the 43 provided, it’s likely that info too would have been in the add. The next highest bidder was $5k lower, and I was expecting no help from BaT, but I feel like the buyer had 7 days where he could have done anything he liked to verify before bidding. The buyer then declared he would send his guys to inspect it, and wire the payment once satisfied. Again, because I want my friend to receive full payment, and because I have zero doubt about it’s authenticity, we are going along with this guy’s wishes for now and hoping for a swift payment.
    Your feeling is spot on. BaT is not a listing site, like Craigslist, it's an auction site. When the car is sold, it's sold—not sold if... The seller does their work up front and is done at the end of the listing other than contacting the buyer, receiving payment, and arranging for the pickup of the car.

    You may want to report the buyer to BaT for playing outside the rules they agreed to...if for no other reason than to protect others from the same shenanigans. I believe they might ban bidders for playing it that way, and rightly so. If so, they may be willing to apply pressure to the buyer to do what he agreed to do, or lose his ability to use BaT.

  5. #35
    Senior Member VintageExcellen's Avatar
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    I find the BAT ad copy that they obviously have full control of is rather boring bland and written often like an amateur car seller putting an ad on craigslist. Sure there are many people that go way over the top in this day and age with their descriptions but having good writing can often bring someone into the increadibility of a car that is not fully seen on fist glance (must be an incredible car however as you canít oversell bland cars). If an owner is a better writer than the staff then maybe they should break the boring format. Big auctions hire professional writers who will be dammed if you are going to write their copy for them! But they do share the copy with you before print, you get full communication with the writer and if you play to their ego like you would a Trump and compliment them then you can get many changes made the way you want.

    Just so you guys see it clearly BAT is a dealer without a license located on a website that holds no claims of authenticity and holds no responsibility to the sale, in fact the only thing they do is put the ad together the way they want it but if something is wrong then itís not their fault because the owner supplied the information even though they editorialized this information before publishing. They have created a place where buyers and seller meet - thatís all. They do pick and choose what is offered so there is some control of they quality of cars and itís not flooded with too many of a hot type of car or junk cars. Trying to blame or sue BAT for anything will be wasted time. Better to go in knowing that. They make no profits from sellers but they hold no inventory and therefore need sellers, it is the buyer they make money from. Usually the one that pays the profits to the organization gets the priority care and attention.

    That being said I have seen BAT cut their own commissions just to make a sale which is a phenomenal way to do car sales business. Making the sale happen no matter what. My old dealership has been using BAT for some cars, a 930 was sold for $6k less than reserve and we were wondering how did that happen. Well BAT paid the full amount and just took the difference out of their side of the commission. So they made a couple grand at the end of a deal instead of a big chunk of money but the deal was about to go no sale so they pushed it through anyway. Amazing to see an auction house do this, I give them some great respect for that.

    Who would have thought BAT would be taking this big a market share of classic car sales. I would have never guessed hot rod 911s bringing $200k+ on that site. I think the luxury high end is lacking on cars priced over $200k but maybe this will change. A great 911S is far more valuable to me than a hot rod garage built 911. It is good to have a site where great cars find great buyers. Some of the classic car market has been washed out by junk dealers and idiot restorers with inferior offerings and that puts a bad tase in a buyers mouth. BAT is keeping the junk out and most of the cars the put up seem to be interesting cars, I find myself wanting to buy all sorts of other cool cars on that site.
    Last edited by VintageExcellen; 10-11-2018 at 09:09 AM.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by VintageExcellen View Post


    That being said I have seen BAT cut their own commissions just to make a sale which is a phenomenal way to do car sales business. Making the sale happen no matter what. My old dealership has been using BAT for some cars, a 930 was sold for $6k less than reserve and we were wondering how did that happen. Well BAT paid the full amount and just took the difference out of their side of the commission. So they made a couple grand at the end of a deal instead of a big chunk of money but the deal was about to go no sale so they pushed it through anyway. Amazing to see an auction house do this, I give them some great respect for that.

    That doesn't sound right, BAT caps their buyer fees at $5k. From their website:

    "If you win an auction we charge 5% of the final bid price on top of the winning bid, with a minimum fee of $250 up to $5,000 (5% of a $100,000 bid). The fee for sales higher than $100,000 is capped at $5,000."
    Last edited by mfitton; 10-11-2018 at 11:24 AM.
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  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by mfitton View Post
    That doesn't sound right, BAT caps there buyer fees at $5k. From their website:

    "If you win an auction we charge 5% of the final bid price on top of the winning bid, with a minimum fee of $250 up to $5,000 (5% of a $100,000 bid). The fee for sales higher than $100,000 is capped at $5,000."

    Correct. JUST a little more at a "major house" for sure which is generally 10% and 10%. 10% from the seller and 10% on the buyer.
    Most of them have started playing hardball with buyers having unrealistic reserves. They want a good sell-through rate. They are also not taking anything that rolls anymore. A few bondo sculptures may slip through but for the most part, more care is exercised. I know RM-Sotheby's made an effort to cut down on numbers at Amelia Island this year.

    It is still on the buyer to protect themselves. The houses are here to sell and warranties are not part of the program. Mecum got away with a re-VIN'd ('67 turned out to be a '65) Corvette a few years ago.

    BAT is all of the above but at a lower cost to all parties. The cars are generally not Grade A, i.e., you won't see a 250GTO there.

    All in all it's an ok place for the average Joe.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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    rgruppe #111

  8. #38
    Senior Member Fubawu's Avatar
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    Well I'm taking a turn on the BAT ride! Listed my 74 Ralph Meaney Carrera race car. Car raced at Rennsport this year etc.
    I'll report back.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...che-carrera-6/
    Last edited by Fubawu; 11-20-2018 at 10:25 AM.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Arne's Avatar
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    Beyond Porsches, I've been watching BaT as a place to sell some of my other projects. Currently watching all things Toyota FJ40. My take is that BaT is the best place to sell even commodity vehicles like Land Cruisers - IF they are really good or special. FJ40s either sell well, or they bomb badly. Almost no in between.

    And that makes sense if you think about it, why would someone buy online from far away some vehicle which is not that different than you can find on your local Craigslist.

    All that said, I'm jumping in as well. My '64 FJ40 soft top auction should be live next week.
    Last edited by Arne; 11-20-2018 at 06:05 PM. Reason: typo
    In transit - 1972 911T coupe, born (and someday will be again) Silver
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