Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 81

Thread: Ultimate Paint Details Summary Thread for an early 67S

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    609

    Ultimate Paint Details Summary Thread for an early 67S

    The purpose of this thread is to build one complete overview of all original paint details of an early 67S model.

    In this first post, I will keep a summary with general details and details per area. This might evolve into an inserted table or even an attached PDF…

    The overview will be built in an agile way. For a specific area, details gathered so far will be presented in a new post. You can than provide your comments, confirmations and nuances.
    Please substantiate your reactions by adding references (threads, factory images/movies, brochures, original paint pictures etc.) to avoid word against word discussions.
    Off course you can also address new areas or share general information you have on the painting process.

    Before we start, I would like to thank all of you who already contributed in the past to paint related threads for a model 1967. I read through a large number of threads, scrutinized factory images and brochures, searched for cars auctioned with original paint, read through the known books written on authenticity and originality, searched through numerous photo galleries etc.

    As the painting process evolved over time and depended also on the personal contribution of “Fritz und Heinz”, it is a difficult matter and with regard to some details we might not come to one specification.

    The focus of this thread is on an early 67S model. Off course the information can also be valid for later 67S models and other SWB models. Your nuances will be included in the overview.

    OVERVIEW
    1. GENERAL (PRODUCTS etc)
    • Factory process:
      • Bare Steel
      • Underseal
      • Primer
      • Body color
      • Satin black

    • Primer:
      • Porsche used a lot of primer on non undersealed, flat surfaces
      • Porsche advises in 911 manual 2K primer for repairs
      • White or gray was apparently used by the factory
      • (since we have already greenish gray 2K epoxy on the car, want to use 2K primer on the entire car (extra rust protection) and would like to have a good basis for polo red, we will use 2K black primer)

    • Seam kit (e.g. SEM Black Seam Sealer 29392)
    • Underseal:
      • Black
      • 1,5 to 3 mm thickness (special spray gun 5-6 atm)
      • Granular texture similar to very coarse sandpaper (e.g. 36 grit sanding disk), especially under the trunk lid. The original, like 356 appears to have abrasive/mica in it.
      • Orginally sprayed on bare metal (will be after 2K black primer during restorating: before (outside) polo red paint)
      • Application (SB1 of 911 manual):
        • entire underside of body (incl. inside fenders and wheel wells)
        • inside luggage compartment (also the underside of the trunk lid: inner part with few mm distance from the structure)
        • inside engine compartment
        • in the rear seat area (incl. parcel shelf and floors (not tunnel, not rockers and only spatters on the vertical area under the dashboard in the cabine)) of the body shell

      • Material:
        • To recondition: N431 National Chemical Co° or Teroson (recommended in SB1 of 911 manual)
        • Often used during restorations/repainting:
          • Wurth SKS with professional spray gun
          • Rust-Oleum (e.g. Mike M)
          • Teroson Super Black with spray gun
          • 3M Rocker Schutz, part 08874, with special applicator (too fine apparently)

      • At the sides the underseal seems to go just above jack points. However, the black strip on the bottom of rockers seems not to be sprayed underseal but rather brushed thinned down seam sealer.

    • Paint:
      • Example: 97-6602-L (140°C-Polorot-Lesonal)
      • No clear coat, single pass base coat (2K) (thickness of base coat max. 0,04 mm according to B101 of 911 manual)
      • Total paint systems on orginal cars measured now are between 140 and 160µm (around 0,15 mm)


    • Satin black:
      • Sometimes brushed/sprayed
      • Application
        • Dashboard -> sprayed (front; area near window of horizontal part; inner bottom part (approx. 10 cm) of front window frame (direction roof))
        • Door edges -> brushed
        • Engine lid under grill -> brushed (sprayed according to some sources)
        • Engine/hood lid hinges -> brushed incl. bolt heads (sprayed according to some sources)
        • Horn grill opening -> brushed
        • Front fenders inner part next to door -> brushed
        • Front fender fuel supply opening -> brushed (contradictory statements - ???)
        • To cover overspray and masked items for underseal
        • (2K satin black will be used over all underseal during the restoration)

      • Often used during restorations/repainting:
        • SEM Trim Black (check resistance to gasoline!)
        • VHT epoxy, purple label
        • Wurth satin black
        • Glasurit Rally Black

    2. OUTSIDE

    • Equalisation with tin
    • Primer
    • Wet sanding (the 911 manual advices rubbing down with 360 and 500 grid for repairs)
    • One pass / single stage paint (for Polo Red)
    • Wet sanding /polishing (the 911 manual advices wet sanding with 600 and up (till 3000?) for metallic paints for repairs)
    • Orange peel:
      • Was present from the factory
      • Might come okay after one pass paint
      • A way to have this is by chosing wet sanding starting grid at e.g. 1000 and not lower (more glass effect) or higher (more peel remains). End wet sanding grid is always 3000.

    3. LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT (FRONT TRUNK)

    • Before covering the luggage compartment (a.k.a. front trunk or frunk) with underseal, the following masking was applied. These areas were afterwards covered with black paint.
      • Hinges of the front hood were protected with specific protection
      • The VIN was often masked with a rectangle masking tape, going from the left from the VIN to approx. 3 cm after the VIN. However most in the 305xxxS range seem to have not had any masking on the VIN.
      • The smugglers box cover was closed during undersealing: the inside of the cover and the surface of the box under the cover have only black paint

    4. INTERIOR / CABINE (PARCEL SHELF, REAR SEATS, FLOORS, TUNNEL, INNER ROCKERS, DASHBOARD CABINE SIDE and ROOF CABINE SIDE)

    • Step 1:Underseal
      • Factory applied this over steel on the mid section of the cabine from back to front: from the parcel shelf (not the vertical perforated part) till where the vertical part under the dashboard started. Some splashes can be noted at the bottom of:
        • the vertical part under the dashboard
        • the inner rockers
        • the tunnel

      • Some areas were masked to avoid underseal building up
      • Some sources state that also following sections were entirely covered with underseal (for the time being not taken into account in the drawing):
        • the sidewalls next to the rear seats (till just under the window)
        • the entire inner rockers
        • the vertical side under the dashboard till under the connectors

    • Step 2: Body colour
      • The vertical perforated part under the parcel shelf was painted with some overspray
      • The roof
      • The sidewalls next to the rear seats incl. B-pillar
      • Inner rockers
      • A-pillar and entire dashboard almost till the bottom of the vertical part under the dashboard

    • Step 3: Satin black
      • Over the underseal (and the areas masked for underseal)
      • On the sidewalls next to the rear seats (till just under under windows, but not on B-pillar and reinforcement)
      • On the inner rockers (sometimes not till the edge of the door)
      • On the tunnel
      • On the dashboard from bottom of vertical part up to front (not on mid horizontal section, e.g. with the yellow written VIN)
      • On the dashboard near the window with sometimes some spray on the underside of the window frame (e.g. 10 cm)

    Mind that the black paint looks e.g. more glossy under the dashboard (vertical partfrom floor till under connectors) and on the tunnel than e.g.on the dashboardfront/upper surface.

    • A summary overview:


    Name:  cabine 67S - painting concept - Adore911.jpg
Views: 1654
Size:  54.6 KB

    5. INTERIOR / DOORS
    6. ENGINE COMPARTMENT

    • Lid
      • Like “OUTSIDE” at both sides
      • Then satin black under engine grill (up to 4mm under lid surface) – seems brushed


    • Lid hinges
      • Like “OUTSIDE”
      • Then satin black – seems brushed
      • Bold heads also satin black (after assembly)


    • Engine compartment:
      • Underseal:
        • On bare metal in the factory (will be after 2K Epoxy or other corrosion protection during restorations)
        • Masked areas:
          • tubes to put orange heating/defroster tubes on
          • tube to bring through fuel line
          • tube at right side (oil)
          • hinge pump basis
          • upper surfaces shock absorbers fixings
          • lower part of engine compartment: whole area of of the rail for the engine rubber/seal
          • holes (oil reservoir, lock)

      • Over the underseal you will notice some paint overspray from the ouside paint job (in my example polo red overspray)
      • Satin black
        • Over overspray (we will used it over entire underseal during the restoration)
        • Masked areas: holes as noted above

    7. FRONT FENDERS
    • Most likely NO black satin is used on in the gas filler bowl

    8. REAR FENDERS
    9. BUMPERS

    • The bumpers (front and rear corners) and rear centre panel are painted like the outside of the car (in 2. OUTSIDE). NO underseal is used. All sides are body colour.
    • The front bumper weights:
      • are mounted afterwards with resin and rubber base pads
      • are also sprayed with body colour

    10. UNDERSIDE (PAN / FLOOR / UNDER REAR SEATS)
    Last edited by Adore911; 11-13-2018 at 01:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    609

    Engine compartment start

    Let’s start with an easy one, the engine compartment.

    Lid

    • The lid (both sides) is painted like the outside of the car (in 2. OUTSIDE).
    • Afterwards the area under the engine grill is painted satin black:
      • Up to 4 mm from the lid surface
      • E.g. Glasurit rally black / SEM satin black / Wurth satin black
      • Seems to be brushed


    The hinges


    • The hinges are painted like the outside of the car (in 2. OUTSIDE).
    • Afterwards they are painted satin black:
      • Seems to be brushed
      • Also heads of bolds are painted satin black (after assembly)

    The original engine lid (with 459 stamp) was still with the car in original Polo Red paint. Only the outside was repainted in bleu metallic up to the black area under the engine lid.

    Name:  IMG_3681.jpg
Views: 1821
Size:  84.0 KB

    Name:  IMG_7108.jpg
Views: 1767
Size:  88.7 KB

    The black area under the engine lid in other threads:

    Name:  zwart onder gril.jpg
Views: 1751
Size:  57.9 KB


    Name:  zwart onder gril4.jpg
Views: 1768
Size:  57.0 KB

    Name:  DSC02749.jpg
Views: 1724
Size:  129.2 KB


    Hinges as follows:

    Name:  IMG_7083.jpg
Views: 1693
Size:  98.2 KB

    Name:  IMG_7088.jpg
Views: 1685
Size:  156.9 KB
    Last edited by Adore911; 11-11-2018 at 06:21 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Harleysville, PA
    Posts
    141
    Adore911,

    Great start! As we pm’d I am also trying to document this for my painter right now.

    I will also add some of the info I have gathered from some of the various posts on this site (thanks everyone!)

    Mark
    67s in restoration
    1967 911S - 306465
    1980 911SC
    2005 Carrera Cabriolet

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    609

    Engine compartment continued

    Engine compartment continued.


    • Underseal:
      • On bare metal in the factory (will be after 2K Epoxy or other corrosion protection during restorations)
      • Masked areas:
        • tubes (to put orange heating tubes on)
        • tube to bring through fuel line
        • tube at right side (oil)
        • hinge pump basis
        • upper surfaces shock absorbers fixings
        • lower part (engine compartment rubber rail)
        • holes (oil reservoir, lock)

    • Over the underseal you will notice some paint overspray from the ouside paint job (in my example polo red overspray)
    • Satin black
      • Over overspray (we will used it over entire underseal during the restoration)
      • Masked areas: holes as noted above


    Name:  InkedIMG_7105_LI.jpg
Views: 1715
Size:  203.2 KB

    Name:  IMG_7034_LI.jpg
Views: 1666
Size:  165.3 KB

    Name:  IMG_7017.jpg
Views: 1673
Size:  122.3 KB

    Name:  InkedIMG_7020 (2)_LI.jpg
Views: 1557
Size:  135.4 KB

    Name:  IMG_7142_LI.jpg
Views: 1635
Size:  70.3 KB
    Last edited by Adore911; 11-11-2018 at 04:56 AM.

  5. #5
    The whole area where the engine seal goes was taped off before undercoat application

  6. #6
    Thanks for creating this thread, Erwin. It's going to be epic.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    609
    Hi 718RSK and JimmyT,

    Thanks! We try do to it as good as possible .

    Kr,

    Erwin

  8. #8
    Senior Member softwindow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Bonn, Germany
    Posts
    315
    Hallo,
    can others confirm the black paint under the engine grill?

    Are there differences between the softwindows and Coupes?

    Nice thread Adore911!

    Kind regards
    Bernd
    356 A 58 silver
    302485 light ivory
    500248 Softwindow light ivory
    500441 Softwindow S light ivory
    2.2 S Targa geminiblue
    2.4 T Targa black
    2.4 S Targa vipergreen
    2.7 RSR tribute green (original 2.4 E 1972)

    Macan GTS black
    Boxter S black
    997 Turbo Cabriolet black

    BMW R 17
    BMW R 69S black with Steib 500

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    609
    Quote Originally Posted by softwindow View Post
    Hallo,
    can others confirm the black paint under the engine grill?

    Are there differences between the softwindows and Coupes?

    Nice thread Adore911!

    Kind regards
    Bernd
    Hi softwindow,

    Thanks!

    For my car this is 100% sure. This thread will provide you more info: http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...l=1#post624347

    Kr,

    Erwin

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    609

    Front bumpers, rear bumper corners and centre panel

    Front bumpers, rear bumper corners and rear centre panel


    • The bumpers and rear centre panel are painted like the outside of the car (in 2. OUTSIDE). NO underseal is used.
    • The front bumper weights:
      • are mounted afterwards with resin and rubber base pads
      • are also sprayed with body colour


    Front bumper outside/inside:

    Name:  IMG_0146.JPG
Views: 1576
Size:  128.2 KB

    This is what I saw when removing my original polo red front bumper weights (only covered with dirt):

    Name:  IMG_3185.jpg
Views: 1544
Size:  247.5 KB

    Name:  IMG_3186.jpg
Views: 1541
Size:  115.1 KB

    Name:  IMG_3187.jpg
Views: 1529
Size:  176.7 KB

    Name:  IMG_3188.jpg
Views: 1536
Size:  136.3 KB

    Bumper weights from another car:

    Name:  Gewoon kleur zonder textuur.jpg
Views: 1545
Size:  131.8 KB

    Rear bumper corners and centre panel:

    Name:  IMG_0569.jpg
Views: 1579
Size:  119.9 KB

    My original rear bumper corner (only covered with dirt):

    Name:  IMG_7823.jpg
Views: 1523
Size:  93.0 KB

    My original centre panel (only covered with dirt):

    Name:  25. Middendeel - uitsparingen terug ongedaan maken (5).jpg
Views: 1531
Size:  143.4 KB
    Last edited by Adore911; 11-11-2018 at 02:33 PM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Message Board Disclaimer and Terms of Use
This is a public forum. Messages posted here can be viewed by the public. The Early 911S Registry is not responsible for messages posted in its online forums, and any message will express the views of the author and not the Early 911S Registry. Use of online forums shall constitute the agreement of the user not to post anything of religious or political content, false and defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise to violate the law and the further agreement of the user to be solely responsible for and hold the Early 911S Registry harmless in the event of any claim based on their message. Any viewer who finds a message objectionable should contact us immediately by email. The Early 911S Registry has the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.