June 3rd 1973 Carrera RS leading the F1 pack at June 1973 Monaco GP

[911MRP]

Not sure if posted here before? Video at 5mins shows Grand Prix White with blue M472 LHD with TTG leading the F1 pack

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zCr1pa...fauxfullscreen

Also les crisp image but around 1 min and 3.30 min

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bcQ6IC...fauxfullscreen

I remember posting about this car being on track during event before. Being a major race probably plenty video footage exists so might be possible to identify it if not already known

Steve

[DOUGS73E]

Cool . . .

[911MRP]

Are few seconds also shoeing a white 911 but different partial plate?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CoQb...fauxfullscreen

[HughH]

Are few seconds also shoeing a white 911 but different partial plate?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CoQb...fauxfullscreen

Steve
the partial plate in this one is NSD 298L James Hunt's car 911 360 0498

I cant quite make out the letters in the other one but they are different cars

I think the other one MAY be LB ZT 110

I can read the LB ( Ludwigsburg, Baden-Württemberg where a lot of the factory and press use cars were registered) - it is easier to see from the shot of the rear
The middle letters are hard to read but MAY be ZT
and the last three numbers look like they MAY be 110

I know LB ZT 111 was a factory sales department car - 9113600698 but it was a white and red M472 (see photo below)
I am guessing that LB ZT 110 may a sister car as the factory cars often had consecutive registration numbers. There was a sales dept M472 in white and blue with white fog lights above bumper with a close vin to 0698. It was 911 360 0706

I would guess that it is that car

[911MRP]

Hi Hugh
Think you are correct on the German registered car.

Not sure it is the Hesketh Hunt car even though there are stories of it being at that Monaco event. Might be Rhd M472 number 498 but I'm not sure ....

If as you say it is that Hunt owned car then it must've been very quickly repainted from original lilac to the Hesketh (predominantly) white livery as seen in later ownership by Hunt. It is still lilac in photo here in 1973. Story I heard was that car had an accident early in its life and so was resprayed although if technically a Hesketh Team car a respray might just have been for team livery PR Marketing purposes.

That ex Hesketh Hunt car (and as you know the Hunt and Iirc Watson first series cars of which there were couple of roughly only fifty first series RHD in first 500 quota so quite uncommon RL configuration). They're both in the UK and in long-term ownership. (The later was still with Watson when I last spoke with him).

The eagle eyed race fans will no doubt identify the race track in photo below at which point it is still in factory lilac paint ( as far as I can tell from b&w photo) and therefore deduce the date of the race when Hunt is inspecting it in the photo. The fact he is inspecting engine at all and car still lilac rather implies is birtually brand new in photo below and so still a novelty to him at that point.


Around that time UK registered cars switched from the traditional white on black or silver on black registration plates to the then new style number plates. The car shown in video has the partial older style which were unlikely to be used back then and obviously wasn't used when lilac. Generally UK registered cars got white background front and yellow background rear with black letters by summer 1973. The lilac British plate car being inspected by Hunt has the black on yellow new circa 73 new style. While we sometimes see UK Rhd Carrera RS presented these days with black and silver plates the first example of model only arrived first week of January 1973 by which time newer style plates had Ben introduced and the former style would've been considered rather old hat for a modern top of range Porsche of calendar 73. Offhand think date new plate introduced was 1 Jan 73 and most new cars hit them fitted (although the is a period of grace to around 1975 these days for historic register cars).

No possibility of mixture of old and new style plates front to rear -- illegal. These are yellow background and black newer style rears.

Presence of white on black partial front plate in video and fact car white by beginning June 73 is not conclusive but grounds for my doubts even of Hesketh car was by repute at the event.

Despite my interest in RS I never saw Hunt in that RS despite living a few minutes walk from his former home and seeing him frequently walking the dog past my house -- so no firsthand knowledge. Not sure when he finally sold it and it went the current owners the Taylor family but it was quite a long time ago as car well known in their ownership here in UK.

Incidentally in an old (VHS one hour old school tape) I have of the Monaco race in 73 there is another RS (light yellow I think but hard to be certain due to heat haze and dust) RS tucked away in a gap in Armco that is seen briefly in old footage.

(The distinctive orange ONS car is seen in other events Iirc Germany race that same year but not at Monaco 73 afaik)

Steve

[HughH]

Hi Steve
I could see the "D 298 L " in the video although not in the same frame. see the pics
I dont think it could be anything else but the Hesketh car, At first I thought it may have been a french registered car but with the L at the end it could not have been one of those - or Swiss or Italian

[HughH]

Steve
I just looked at a couple of other "L" plated RS's that I have early photos of.
PGW 105L, RS # 0203 at the 1974 safari had white on black rear plates and in the photo of it with the other cars and the freight plane in 1974 it seems to have silver reflective on black front plates ( it had Zoll plates in 73)

PGF 270 L RS #0446 at the 73 Targa had white on black front plates
PMC 134L RS#0426 had black on white front plates in 1975
RGC 17L (Morley) had the new style in period photos but the old style now
RGO 2L had the new style originally and now also has the old style
RGO 3L was also new style
CMR 911L RS #0342 also had white on black in 1976

There was also the white and red car that Morley had at the 1975 circuit of Ireland with white on black plates BTJ 121L. We have discussed the probable identity of that one in the past

I dont have period photos of the other L plated cars so as you noted it was just on crossover time but SOME did have old style plates

[911MRP]

Certainly from late sixties was crossover between the older black with white or silver and the technically required 1 January 73 use of the white and yellow with black letters so wouldn't want to be definitive especially as the Hesketh Hunt car was said to be there at Monaco event according to lore and tall tale of the unreturned car. Rally cars probably got new plates regularly and old style black and white metal ones vs the sometimes plastic fragile newer ones. Doubt it was enforced during transition.

The only two photos I have of the Hunt car both have the more modern style plates -- both when lilac paint and 73 white repaint but that is not proof. These days RHD RS and LHD imports when restored often have the older style black background UK plate as it gives car classic feel even if technically not correct for Jan 73. Think there is more latitude now to 75 to use black background if on historic register but used to in theory be a legal rule to use based on first registration. I vaguely recall discussion when getting my car historic status. With the first Rhd RS example made in calendar 72 bug known for a fact to be delivered to PCGB/SFN in first week Jan that was after the nominal plate style changeover date. Suspect dealers in day still fitted what they were used to using and consumed stock that had been supplied.

Hesketh Hunt car has registration letters xSD. Second and third letters denote licensing district Ayrshire in Scotland. That would suggest Glen Henderson Ayr dealer in theory but I thought there was only ever one (Iirc Oxford blue) Rhd RS registered in Scotland (cue Mike our north of the border correspondent to chip in) but suspect AFN PCGB supplied new from London Road rather than going via provincial dealer in Scotland given Hesketh stately home was very near Silverstone in middle of UK. Being landed gentry maybe Lord Hesketh also had a stately pile in Scotland too? Reminds me: I befriended a wonderful gentleman who bought an RS brand new from AFN in 73 through my work with the Motorsport governing body and HMG over 15 years ago; he owned a large amount of Scotland and was by birth a member of the House of Lords like Hesketh a nd used the RS for decades to commute between his London home and the large family estate in Scotland that he'd inherited as a young man ( as well as many European road trips)-- wonderful character great motoring tales that have sadly passed with him fairly recently.

Must say it looks from partials as if it could be the Hunt car but of so don't quite get the Hokey Cokey plate type switch unless it was a consequence of the rumoured crash that caused repaint to white and got changed againbefore Spain photo? A fancy new 73 car it in lilac had the plates of newer style similar to Nick Faure RGOxL racers originally and the M472 I've just posted on the England thread today. Nick is pictured below in 1973 with fairly new M471 along with AFN MD and Porsche Cars GB importer head Aldington after winning a STP race in 1973. Seems to be plastic type plate with the reflective white background with black letters that technically required then for 1 Jan 73 onwards car...


Probably other photos about of Monaco F1 event might shed more light on these cars.

[911MRP]

Also a different Grand Prix White with Green M472 Carrera RS spec leading them away at Le Mans 73 in early part of video:

https://youtu.be/OnrT1rgVoyI

Its reg plate LB-OX-72 can be seen on a still shot dated Saturday, June 09, 1973


Steve

[HughH]

Steve

I think you will find that it is LB-DX 72 911 360 0982