Stolen Car: 9112300871 Engine 632 1334 - 1972 Porsche 911 2.4S in Switzerland

[MPST]

I am waiting but the impression I had of this man when I spoke with him by mail was not very good. Without any kind of antecedent, in the conversation I had with him in which I told him if I had data about my car, he "spat on me" some data that he had already given me to Porsche and without having said anything about it being a work relationship he asked me for 250e. I still owe them, and I owe them because it made me feel stupid for thinking that someone of his level would lend himself to speak simply without charging a cent. But what I will never forget is that phrase he told me. If you have a pORSCHE, you have to have € 100.
As secluded. I stare at the case, if guilt is confirmed it will give me much to think about a man who has had everything and was asking around € 100/250 for information that the porsche gave for free while, he would charge "40k" for getting involved in other cars .... For me, Jurgen, it will be an unforgettable name, guilty or not. In any case. Good luck and Salds

Sounds like him.......

[uai]

link to article https://www2.aachener-zeitung.de/zva....20porsche.pdf

and article as pdf
09.12.20porsche.pdf

[911T1971]

according to article, 186 cases registred, 35 suspicous and 14 proven for trial, again Barth and Niermann indirectly named.
The Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG also opened a complain within that case.

[JimmyT]

The Lucrative Business With The Racing Legends
Aachen could have been the hub in fraud involving millions of counterfeit Porsche classic cars. Prosecutor brings charges.
Oliver Schmetz and Stephan Mohne, AZ, 08DEC20, Page Three

AACHEN
Around this world they have become legends made of sheet metal, for example because they victoriously crossed the finish line at the 24 Hours of Le Mans. The fact that film icon James Dean raced to his death with a copy contributed to the formation of legend on the streets. In one case there is talk of the Porsche 917, the multiple Le Mans winner, which is sometimes referred to as the “racing car of the century”. In the other case of a Porsche 550 Spyder that was only built around 100 times. It cost 24,000 Deutschmarks in the 1950s, which sounds rather ridiculous today, but was certainly a lot of money back then. If you want to buy an original today, you have to put around five to seven million euros on the table. With the 917 one speaks of completely different sums in the double-digit million range. It goes without saying that such automotive treasures attract some people with excessive money as prestige objects or as investments. And this is exactly what an extraordinary criminal case revolves, which has its center in Aachen and which will most likely soon occupy the economic criminal chamber of the Aachen regional court. Such vehicles are said to have been counterfeited in rows in a company in Aachen and then brought to buyers with equally forged papers and reports, sometimes for millions.

Aacheners among the defendants
In July 2019, apartments and business premises were searched in several federal states. Now, after a total of more than two and a half years of extensive investigations in the sensational case, the public prosecutor's office has brought charges against three suspects, including fraud, forgery and trademark infringement. The accused are the 49-year-old former managing director of a company specializing in vintage cars in Aachen, a 48-year-old cosmetic surgeon from Düsseldorf and a 72-year-old former successful racing driver and proven Porsche racing expert from Sachsenheim.
The indictment encompasses a total of 22 cases in the most varied of forms, whereby the 49-year-old from Aachen is believed to have been involved in all of these cases and is therefore the main defendant. Even after the raid he was almost four months in custody and was only released on payment of a large bail. According to Lena Streubel, deputy spokeswoman for the regional court, the other two defendants are each charged with participating in four cases. A total of 14 automotive legends on four wheels play a role in the proceedings - in addition to the 550 and the 917, for example, racing versions of the Porsche 911 and the models 904 and 908, among others.

Replica from scrap
First, the investigators created 186 case files. Then they focused on 35 suspected cases, although sometimes the allegations either could not be substantiated or they were already statute-barred - for example in the case of another great racing driver of yore.
How did the business work? Answer: sometimes like this, sometimes like that. An example: One customer was interested in a certain rare, original Porsche. In the Aachener company it was "procured". But not as an original. Rather, a replica was practically conjured up out of scrap, but then sold to the prospect as an original. The investigators believe that since there are only a few vehicles left worldwide or they were even unique in the field of racing that they had to, among other things, also forge the chassis number and the papers. In relation to the data, e.g. chassis numbers, the 72-year-old Porsche specialist and former Le Mans winner, who has a large archive, has also contributed information.
A racing driver and lover of rare cars is said to have had a 911 built - knowing that it was a fake. This car is said to have been sold later as an expensive original. The public prosecutor's office also classifies this as fraud. In another case, a forgery is said to have been made with the knowledge of the buyer. In the sales contract it was agreed that the car would receive an original gearbox worth 200,000 euros, which was never delivered.

Counterfeiting down to the smallest detail
In yet another case there was this curiosity: Original documents from 1970 are said to have been presented when selling. However, an opinion by the public prosecutor's office revealed that the type of paper had only been on the market since the 1980s. In another case, the cosmetic surgeon is said to have used a counterfeit classic car as security for a bank loan. According to the indictment, the said Porsche 550 and the credit line was not just small change: The total credit was 6.347 million euros. Insiders have reported to our newspaper that, for example, for forging engine and gearbox numbers, special punching tools have been built that have the same little flaws - such as notches in certain numbers and letters - as the originals in the factory. Or, for example, that old typewriters, which were common when the original vehicles were built, are used to forge vehicle papers. Those familiar with the scene say that there is a flourishing trade worldwide not only in counterfeit vehicles, but also in papers. Of course, the vehicles also need official approval. This is where the Aachen case was exposed. The Düren road traffic office had become aware of irregularities in this area. On closer inspection, it became clear that the Aachen-based company in particular, appeared frequently in this context, which was the initial signal for the investigations, which then spread widely.
Employees of the traffic office authority have also been identified, but their investigation has been separated because they are said to have waved through the papers and vehicles not only for the Aacheners, but also for other "customers". Speaking of large circles: after our newspaper's first report in July 2019, numerous witnesses reported to the investigators - even from afar. For example, a man from Japan who said he had been cheated. There was also evidence from the United States and elsewhere. No wonder that the four-person team of investigators at the Aachen Criminal Police Office has repeatedly resorted to the services of interpreters in their investigations, which have been ongoing since April 2018. Despite the charges that have now been presented, the investigations are not yet over, as the investigating prosecutor Jan Balthasar says. For example, it has not yet been possible to clarify where and by whom the papers were forged.

Did the customers know?
The court must now decide whether the indictment will lead to main proceedings. According to Lena Streubel, “at the moment it cannot be predicted at all” when a lawsuit could then occur. According to reports, the accused businessman confessed that he had permitted falsifications. However, customers would have known that they were buying counterfeits. The amount of the total damage is not easy for the investigators to estimate, since the forgeries also have a value, albeit a lower one. However, this case is likely to be in the double-digit million range. Incidentally, the manufacturer, about whom this story revolves around valuable originals and forgeries, has filed a criminal complaint for infringement of trademark law: Porsche.

[_gonbau]

The Lucrative Business With The Racing Legends.......

Replica from scrap
First, the investigators created 186 case files. Then they focused on 35 suspected cases, although sometimes the allegations either could not be substantiated or they were already statute-barred - for example in the case of another great racing driver of yore.
How did the business work? Answer: sometimes like this, sometimes like that. An example: One customer was interested in a certain rare, original Porsche. In the Aachener company it was "procured". But not as an original. Rather, a replica was practically conjured up out of scrap, but then sold to the prospect as an original. The investigators believe that since there are only a few vehicles left worldwide or they were even unique in the field of racing that they had to, among other things, also forge the chassis number and the papers. In relation to the data, e.g. chassis numbers, the 72-year-old Porsche specialist and former Le Mans winner, who has a large archive, has also contributed information.
A racing driver and lover of rare cars is said to have had a 911 built - knowing that it was a fake. This car is said to have been sold later as an expensive original. The public prosecutor's office also classifies this as fraud. In another case, a forgery is said to have been made with the knowledge of the buyer. In the sales contract it was agreed that the car would receive an original gearbox worth 200,000 euros, which was never delivered.
...

is this snippet an example? Or is it a true story? Is 911 known to be involved?

[rhegra]

Take a look at the Facebook page of Scuderia m66, there you can see a lot of cars, 911, 904, 908, 917...

[911T1971]

Take a look at the Facebook page of Scuderia m66, there you can see a lot of cars, 911, 904, 908, 917...

That company in Aachen were Scuderia66 was part of it and owned by Uwe Niermann was called Automobilzentrum Aachen https://www.automobilzentrum-aachen.de.

Its now bancrupt and its website gone, fb page is just a record and not admin anymore.

[_gonbau]

That company in Aachen were Scuderia66 was part of it and owned by Uwe Niemann was called Automobilzentrum Aachen https://www.automobilzentrum-aachen.de.

Its now bancrupt and its website gone, fb page is just a record and not admin anymore.

one of my favortios tricks is being able to travel in time. It is a trick that I learned a long time ago and it has served me for many things ... I hope, for those who do not know this "trick", know how to see the potential it has ... As I said, it has served me many times to find deleted images / posts, etc .... ALL, EVERYTHING, EVEN IF YOU DELETE IT .... it stays.
This page for me is one of the greatest tools I have.
http://web.archive.org/web/201901121...rum-aachen.de/

**


+
I have a simple question for the skilled eye. How are cloned cars different? If it has been done from a "perfectionist" point of view ... How do you differentiate a real one from junk? If the chassis numbers remain and the history of that car is in the books with that same chassis number. X-ray techniques is what will help you? Or at this level it is impossible to distinguish the real from the plagiarized?

[HughH]

Baudett
My view is that IF they start with a vin / identity of a car known to be destroyed in the past, and have all of the right dies and tools for the vin and other stampings to the extent that even small flaws in certain factory fonts/dies used at the time for vin and other identity stamping are reproduced and then they construct a car as it would have been made in the factory including sloppy welds etc AND THEN have paperwork created that is near enough identical to that produced by the factory at the time the car was supposed to have been made (including using old typewriters to get the fonts and look correct on the paperwork) and THEN get the car passed through the TUV with the TUV providing official papers, it would be almost impossible to tell - even using the best modern scientific techniques.

However I did read in one of the articles covering this (and also in a post above) that the old looking documents, with the correct information and typefaces etc was found to be made from a type of paper that was not available until the 1980's.

IF that is the extent to which the investigation of these allegations is going (as it seems from various reports) it would seem that IF the detail is ever released it will make a very interesting read regardless of the outcome of the trial.

[_gonbau]

Baudett
My view is that IF they start with a vin / identity of a car known to be destroyed in the past, and have all of the right dies and tools for the vin and other stampings to the extent that even small flaws in certain factory fonts/dies used at the time for vin and other identity stamping are reproduced and then they construct a car as it would have been made in the factory including sloppy welds etc AND THEN have paperwork created that is near enough identical to that produced by the factory at the time the car was supposed to have been made (including using old typewriters to get the fonts and look correct on the paperwork) and THEN get the car passed through the TUV with the TUV providing official papers, it would be almost impossible to tell - even using the best modern scientific techniques.

However I did read in one of the articles covering this (and also in a post above) that the old looking documents, with the correct information and typefaces etc was found to be made from a type of paper that was not available until the 1980's.

IF that is the extent to which the investigation of these allegations is going (as it seems from various reports) it would seem that IF the detail is ever released it will make a very interesting read regardless of the outcome of the trial.

I had understood what you said, but it had not been very clear to me about the paper* ... although I read it. At this level are we? We investigated the paper instead of the metal, the paints and welds? (Because these "present the original aspect ...). The reproductions are reaching an incomparable level since my short time in this world. Too much to think about xD! Sorry for the text ... but these levels scare even porsche I hope.