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Thread: FS: @RM Sotheby’s - 1964 300082 Estimate 600-800.000 Eur

  1. #61
    Senior Member Milou's Avatar
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    Following Artcurial's auction online... Not easy, market cooling off or continuing to do so....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkzp...ature=youtu.be

    Milou / Registry #884
    www.ecurielyford.com

  2. #62
    These particular auctioneers always kill me when they say (in their french accents): "Look at that es-car-got!"

    Allez, allez, vite, vite, vite!!
    Last edited by jhartmann66; 02-09-2019 at 04:19 AM.
    Member#: 3654

    71 911S HWT (Euro, Tangerine)
    67 912 SWT (black over red)

    Sundry: 68 Ghia (2.27 four), 65 Honda S600 Coupe (project, but with motor that redlines at 9500), KTM 990, other?

  3. #63
    Hello, I am the owner (together with a friend of mine) of this very early 911 VIN 300082.

    Well, I must say I am not surprised by how much you guys all know about early 911's.
    But the fact that you break down the car in every possible way is very fascinating.

    First of all:
    when I found the car I was very excited because of the VIN nr.
    The car was correct and pretty original, but NOT complete.
    It was used, raced and yes it was allready well priced.
    The only thing that convinced me to buy it was the fantastic colour, enamel blue and the complete known history of the car.


    Now I had to finish the car before the auction and YES I know some things are not correct. Simply because you can't buy them or find them or some things are too expensive.


    The car has allready taken a huge budget and nowadays it seems like there is no or very little market for these cars. So I wonder if it is necessary to do all these things.

    How many people have checked the car personally and what are your remarks?
    I will try to make the car better, or more original (off course) but give me time please.
    I am not doing this for you guys, but for myself and for OUR passion, classic Porsches and in particular early 911's.

    Feel free to give reactions!
    I am making a new list (I allready had one) with all the remarks.
    With that new list I will start to improve the car and keep you all posted.

    Greets,
    Michael

  4. #64
    Influencer Frank Beck's Avatar
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    Michael,

    You and I have spoken on many occasions... but unfortunately not about this car.
    Not that I am a ‘64 “expert” but I know enough that I’m actually surprised that you didn’t offer any questions. Or if you contracted with any professional while undertaking such an important restoration?

    I say this with sincere wonder: Why would a layperson believe they can restore and auction such a historic piece of Porsche history without seeking advice and counsel regarding details and forensic nuances? (If you did pay someone for their “expertise” you got hosed.)

    And may I ask why you “rushed” it to auction? I believe this car could have “broken the bank.” Now it has baggage and a nasty STD.
    Warning! If I crap on you it’s not on purpose.

    I often buy parts I think I need but find out I already own.

    "Save the whales."
    "Save the Rain Forest."
    "Save the baby humans."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54DG48N4gs0

  5. #65
    Senior Member Milou's Avatar
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    Hi Michael,

    Thanks for coming here and sharing your co-ownership of the car. You're right, the colour is fantastic. Frank is right and when a car surpasses a certain price point (600,000 Euros certainly does), it falls into another category where the originality and restoration quality become all the more important (the devil is in the details).

    The current market can be divided in roughly three groups: The dealers (price sensitive), the speculators/investors (financial mood & perception of future upside sensitive) and the passionate collectors who simply love the early Porsches. Group 2 has slowed down substantially, which of course is affecting the confidence of Group 1. So the market is now down to Group 3: collectors who have been passionate for the brand for a decade or two, who are used to lower prices, and know how to do their research on a car.

    To convince them to pay such a high sum for a very early 911 in a great colour is hard enough (perhaps too hard), BUT it absolutely needs to be perfect.

    To me, it seems that at that price level, I would want an original car with its original interior and paint, even with a 64 chassis number.
    Last edited by Milou; 02-11-2019 at 09:18 AM.

    Milou / Registry #884
    www.ecurielyford.com

  6. #66
    While all the brain trust is weighing in, a question on '64s. Is a 64 with period FIA race history worth more as a street car or a period correct race car?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Beck View Post
    Michael,

    I say this with sincere wonder: Why would a layperson believe they can restore and auction such a historic piece of Porsche history without seeking advice and counsel regarding details and forensic nuances?
    .
    I think it would have helped a lot if you show pictures from start (when found) to finish w/ all details in focus.


    Richard
    searching for engine (case) 903742

  8. #68
    Influencer Frank Beck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanders View Post
    While all the brain trust is weighing in, a question on '64s. Is a 64 with period FIA race history worth more as a street car or a period correct race car?
    That's easy.

    Street car.

    Far and away more buyers for properly restored 64 street cars than race cars.
    Racers buy "hardware" and a fast-pass into prestigious events. (And will pay accordingly.) Street guys buy glamour, status, and a story. And will pay though the nose for bragging rights. (Welcome to the new reality.)
    IMHO I believe a high water mark currently for a FIA 64 is maybe $500k? Unless it has extraordinary history.


    The real question is this: With the condition and level of race prep does it make economical sense to turn it back into a street car versus what it will sell for as an FIA legal car with history?
    Warning! If I crap on you it’s not on purpose.

    I often buy parts I think I need but find out I already own.

    "Save the whales."
    "Save the Rain Forest."
    "Save the baby humans."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54DG48N4gs0

  9. #69
    Senior Member Milou's Avatar
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    It all depends of the quality of the "history" (recent historical rallyes or le mans classic: less important in my opinion, but old like a Targa Florio with a good driver and documented...) and how much of the general car is original to that period.

    Milou / Registry #884
    www.ecurielyford.com

  10. #70
    Input is much appreciated.

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