FS: @RM Sotheby’s - 1964 300082 Estimate 600-800.000 Eur

[Bullethead]

Hammered @ 621k usd reserve not met

This means that the auctioneer knocked down the hammer at 550,000 Euros after looking for someone to bid to the reserve in vain (probably set at 580,000 euros or 600,000 the low estimate).

No one actually put a bid of 550euros or 621k usd.

Exactly... a chandelier bidder used by the auction house when there's clearly no further interest in the room.

[Frank Beck]

Amazed at how mainstream criminality has become in the auction industry.

[mobius911]

I was of the same mind, but in the US, at least, chandelier bidding by the auction house is legal as long as there is a reserve and they stay below it. Still smacks as highly unethical. I wonder, do all auction houses do it?

[garycox]

I was of the same mind, but in the US, at least, chandelier bidding by the auction house is legal as long as there is a reserve and they stay below it. Still smacks as highly unethical. I wonder, do all auction houses do it?

No Chandelier bidding, let me think, auction houses, well, uh,

I can only come up with BaT? Maybe? Most of the time....

[Milou]

Yes. chandelier bidding below the reserve is not only legal but also necessary. Let me explain:

The auctioneer opens the bidding at let’s say 500,000 euros with a reserve of 580,000. He seeks bids on the phone or in the room, and (for argument’s sake) finds Franck in the first row raising his paddle. Franck now has the winning bid at 520,000 €, but his bid is below the reserve price. The auctioneer looks for another bidder but does not find one, so he chandelier bids to 550,000, hoping Franck will place another bid and reach the reserve of 580, but Franck sits on his hands and does not bid. The auctioneer hammers the car at 550,000 and the car remains unsold.

In conclusion, when a lot remains unsold at auction, the last bid is always a chandelier bid from the auctioneer to defend the vendor’s reserve.

[Frank Beck]

Franck sounds like a smart cookie and sensed a shill.

Riddle me this: Let's say the seller decides to lift the reserve the moment that 550 bid is announced. If chandelier bidding is ethical and honest then who is responsible for actually paying that 550 high bid?

If it smells like a skunk, looks like a skunk...


Call me naive (yes, I admit it) but it seems that the entire auction industry is built around ego, coveting, and emotion driven buyers. In other words; weak people.

[jos.hall]

Is the auction house then responsible for the difference between the chandelier bid and the reserve? Or will the reserve never be lifted off a pseudo bid?

[Milou]

Not naive Franck, it’s a strange auction practice, and not the worst one I assure you. The reserve prices are always set before the sale, but sometimes the vendor is in the room and can signal the auctioneer and lower the reserve accordingly at the very last minute. When it’s the case, the auctioneer will ask the vendor if he wants to lower the reserve while the bid is still with Franck and before he chandeliers at 550.

Francks who is experienced and wise will make an offer after the sale at the level of his last bid or a bit more hoping the vendor will choose to sell instead of keeping the car that remained unsold.

PS: vendor signed a consignment agreement in which the auction house protects itself and is allowed just about anything. On the good side, the auction house is allowed to sell below the reserve price as long as the vendor receives the amount agreed at his reserve price. It’s called profit & loss and usually means that the auction house is willing to share part of its buyer’s premium (from 10 to 20% on top of the hammer price) with the vendor to reach his reserve price. A chandelier bid is officially called "placing a bid on behalf of the vendor to protect his reserve price"

[Frank Beck]

Not naive Franck, it’s a strange auction practice, and not the worst one I assure you. The reserve prices are always set before the sale, but sometimes the vendor is in the room and can signal the auctioneer and lower the reserve accordingly at the very last minute. When it’s the case, the auctioneer will ask the vendor if he wants to lower the reserve while the bid is still with Franck and before he chandeliers at 550.

Francks who is experience and wise will make an offer after the sale at the level of his last bid or a bit more hoping the vendor will choose to sell instead of keeping the car that remained unsold.

PS: vendor signed a consignment agreement in which the auction house protects itself and is allowed just about anything. On the good side, the auction house is allowed to sell below the reserve price as long as the vendor receives the amount agreed at his reserve price. It’s called profit & loss and usually means that the auction house is willing to share part of it’s buyer’s premium (from 10 to 20% on top of the hammer price) with the vendor to reach his reserve price.

The emporor is buck naked. That’s all this is.

But I suppose anything can get by the masses in this crazy world where we call boys girls and girls boys.

[Milou]

I wonder if there even was a bid on the car....