What’s a restored 911S worth with non match engine but S engine of same year? Clr ch.

[LongRanger]

. . . "What's it worth?" . . .

. . . Hopefully the sale of the Bahia Red '71S coupe that just sold for $100k doesn't damage the market too much . . .

Here's the car being referred to . . .

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...y-s-71-S-Coupe

. . . 4 Owners + matching numbers + history


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[Fredie]

Great valuable information. Clearly the market has gone soft for now. It still baffles me that little credit is given for the year and engine type but just not the almighty matching number. Forgive me but I’ve been around for while in the 911 world. I was a 911 mechanic when I was going to university in the early 80’s. First 911, 1970 911S coupe. Back then there were many cars who’s engines gave up due to various reasons. And if a replacement was needed the numbers were not an issue.
I certainly understand that it is more rare with the match due to this very fact. But in the end why do we really care? Does it detract from the enjoyment?
The beauty is in the whole car not just the random engine number that was shoehorned into the car at birth.
Just my 2c
Regards and thank you all. I enjoy the discussion and welcome more
Steve

[LongRanger]

. . . I certainly understand that it is more rare with the match . . . . But in the end why do we really care? Does it detract from the enjoyment? . . .

That's EXACTLY the issue when it comes to a 'numbers-matching' car and one that isn't

Same bits

Same performance

Same noises/smells/sensations

Just a few tiny itsy-bitsy-little marks + squiggles hither/yon to distinguish


Yet/still --- the BIG difference? . . .



. . . is the price -------------- buying or selling . . .




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[Frank Beck]

I certainly understand that it is more rare with the match due to this very fact. But in the end why do we really care? Does it detract from the enjoyment?
The beauty is in the whole car not just the random engine number that was shoehorned into the car at birth.
Just my 2c
Steve

Couldn't agree more Steve but if I was selling a car I wouldn't care what a bunch of enthusiasts thought. I would only be concerned with what buyers valued.

You can kick against the goads til the cows come home but all that will do is frustrate you.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Great valuable information. Clearly the market has gone soft for now. It still baffles me that little credit is given for the year and engine type but just not the almighty matching number. Forgive me but I’ve been around for while in the 911 world. I was a 911 mechanic when I was going to university in the early 80’s. First 911, 1970 911S coupe. Back then there were many cars who’s engines gave up due to various reasons. And if a replacement was needed the numbers were not an issue.
I certainly understand that it is more rare with the match due to this very fact. But in the end why do we really care? Does it detract from the enjoyment?
The beauty is in the whole car not just the random engine number that was shoehorned into the car at birth.
Just my 2c
Regards and thank you all. I enjoy the discussion and welcome more
Steve

Steve-
You are very right, it doesn't matter what the engine number is, you can't see it while driving. And you're also right that back in the day no one put much stock in the whole matching numbers thing. But, and this is a big but, no one back in the day was trying to get 6 digits for an old Porsche. The reason matching numbers effects the value so much is because if your car had made it almost 50 years with the original motor it would be pretty special. Not that it isn't a great car now, and can't be enjoyed. It's just with the non-matching motor and a color change it isn't a car for a collector, and those are the guys who pay the big bucks.
And for the record, my most valuable Porsche is not matching numbers and I changed the color last year, it's my car and I do what you're supposed to do, drive it!

---Adam

[tfiv]

I think it matters because it tells you much about the sort of ownership a car probably had, without even delving any further into the story.

When the S motor exceeded the value of the rough chassis it was in, many times the two parted ways. Used motors got shoved into cars to sell, or maybe because it was cheaper than a proper rebuild. Those scenarios describe lower level collector pieces.

[Fredie]

Awesome! That's the spirit. As Ferry intended and all the rest of us crazy's.
OK so I realized I was a bit evasive and slightly standoffish. So in order to show some good faith, I will disclose its colors. After all it was this community that helped me make the decision on the color. Due to its universal popularity and beauty. And I love it for this car.
Signal yellow with black Recaro repo's with houndstooth inserts, salt and pepper carpet. All period correct for year etc.. and very sexy in my humble opinion.
Regards,
Steve

[LongRanger]

. . . You are very right, it doesn't matter what the engine number is, you can't see it while driving. And you're also right that back in the day no one put much stock in the whole matching numbers thing . . . . The reason matching numbers effects the value so much is because if your car had made it almost 50 years with the original motor it would be pretty special . . .

Some years after I sold my Roadster, I caught up with Richie King --- the new owner. And, of course, we got to talking about 87901

Richie uses the car hard --- took it to Le Mans, doing 125 next to a GT3, takes it on vacation, talked about pulling towels out of his hotel room to pull water out of the car after driving in the rain --- 'mad dogs and Englishmen' and all that. Anyway, when I sold the car, it came with a month-correct early Super 90 engine installed --- not a common/easy thing to find . . . with its original un-restored Kardex engine packed in a separate crate that I'd made up. So Richie mentions 'freshening-up' the Super 90 and so I casually ask about the Kardex motor

'I sold it'

Think I gasped

'Richie . . . do you know how rare it is for a beater 356 --- after 40 years . . . to still have --------'

''S OK, 's ok --- I know where it is'

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...l=1#post976872




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[Fredie]

Good for him. And I am sure he still has a smile on his face. That's what matters. Paralysis from analysis is for cars that sit in garages and do not get enjoyed by driving but only by looking. Mind you I appreciate many forms of art and I find automobiles to be a form of art. However, I'd rather drive and enjoy the sights, the sounds, the wind, the smells, the corners,..... You get the picture. Regards, Steve

[silverc4s]

So, it is those things that were done, or not done, with the car b e f o r e it became a valuable collectors item that really matter.

edit:>To the collector. Disregard if you just love the car.