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Thread: Brake options for 71T - with stock spindles

  1. #1
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    Brake options for 71T - with stock spindles

    I have a 71T, very fresh all rebuilt chassis/brakes etc. All is basically new/refurbished with under 4k miles on it. Not stock motor. 2.7L.
    Front end is Boge with Bilstein HD inserts, 21mm torsions, 18mm sways etc.
    I'd like a larger front caliper with more pad area and heat dissipation for aggressive canyon runs
    IIRC, the stock M caliper uses a D31 pad (I have porter field pads in it now) with a 2.4x2.2 pad area. The S have a 3x2.75 pad area (approx).

    Am I correct options for the front brakes are:
    Get S type front struts and an S caliper
    The PMB Brembo AM bolt on for 3" spacing brakes
    Get a carrera type strut and swap over the brakes and rotors, etc

    Any other options?

    thx.

  2. #2
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    There are others that may add more, also over on Pelican check out Bill Veberg (sp?) He has tons of brake information and charts of many options. I think there is plenty of data showing the SC A front caliper has more stopping power / less flex than the sexy aluminum S calipers with the bigger pad but needs the 3.5" spacing strut as well.
    Not sure of the PMB Brembo But BMW (and Alfa as well) used a Brembo caliper with a 3" spacing and same pad as the SC size pad, I am traveling and don't have the BMW models they were used on. And I doubt PMB stocks them but I am sure they would refurbish them if you found them. The Bilstein Carrera strut is great to remove unsprung weight and get you to the 3.5" caliper spacing. If not seriously tracking the car I doubt you need the wider / thicker Carrera rotors to carry away heat. The SC stuff is relative cheap today.
    I also have a 71, T , My solution that I have had for years in the garage and doing the "it is so original do I F. with it" debate is to do the Bilstein Struts (will raise spindle 19mm) change to wedge bolt ball joints Put the SC front suspension under it, aluminum cross member, as well as the 21 /26 T bars, all in the garage, running a 19mm sway now, I did decide against doing the aluminum trailing arms I had bought to use. the 71 rear M calipers are the same as the SC, I will keep the 19mm master cylinder if I ever feel I need more you can upgrade to the 21(?) and need to push a bit harder
    All from memory, traveling and don't have my notes or parts. I meant to send PMB a set of the SC front A calipers and a set of the rear M calipers before I went to Germany, a couple weeks ago but will on my return, I will finally put this together on my return from the Texas Hill Country Rallye as I will not have time on my return home in wk10.
    One point of view, Have fun!

    Best Regards

  3. #3
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    Appreciate the info.
    I know I posted this a few months ago, I ended up ordering the PMB kit for the 3" spindles. They are nice. I like they are 'not stock color' :-) goes with my very mild outlaw 'stock but not stock' look. They are also very light!
    These will go on next week. Car is in having a Carrera oil cooler installed this week.

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  4. #4
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    Brakes are highly overrated. 71 911T with 86 Carrera front suspension and brakes.

    Regards

    Jim
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Breazeale View Post
    Brakes are highly overrated. 71 911T with 86 Carrera front suspension and brakes.

    Regards

    Jim
    You sound like my driving coaches. More gas, less brake.
    I suspect what you put on there is similar is size to these. Just wasn't looking to go that far with the front end :-)
    I'd love to get this thing out at a track day at some point. Chuckwalla would be stupid fun for hanging the back end out.

  6. #6
    The best way to improve overheating is to increase the thermal mass of the rotor. If you fit the 3.2 Caliper and Rotor you will gain more of an improvement than just by changing the caliper to provide a larger pad.

    If you just fit a larger pad then you may reduce pad wear but rotor temperatures won't change much.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Chris Pomares's Avatar
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    The Alfa GTV Brembo aluminum caliper is an option as mentioned above. I have a set on my car. As Jim has pointed out in the past, vintage aluminum calipers probably flex some. Another 3.0 caliper option is the late 70's early 80's ATE BMW 323iS Euro caliper. (Also first year only 1977 BMW 320i. In 1978 they took out the spacers and went to solid rotors) It's basically a steel version of the Alfa Brembo. The pads are the same as the Alfa pad. They are similar to an ATE A caliper. The pad has the lower corners trimmed at an angle to make room for the 3.0 mounting bolts. They use slightly smaller through bolts. As the 323iS weighs more than our cars they should be fine without the aluminum flex. I bought several sets and rebuilt them. I still have a couple sets on my shelf. Here is a picture of both and a picture of a early non S Boxster caliper next to my Alfa caliper.

    I just added the picture that has the M, A, and Boxster pad. The caliper on the left is an early front 914 caliper altered to fit the rear SWB trailing arm. The Brembo caliper and the 914 caliper offer a 1.6 front to rear bias ratio which is the ratio Porsche used on these early cars. The SWB non S pistons are 35 mm, the S 38 mm, and the 914 front 42 mm.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Pomares View Post
    The Alfa GTV Brembo aluminum caliper is an option as mentioned above. I have a set on my car. As Jim has pointed out in the past, vintage aluminum calipers probably flex some. Another 3.0 caliper option is the late 70's early 80's ATE BMW 323iS Euro caliper. (Also first year only 1977 BMW 320i. In 1978 they took out the spacers and went to solid rotors) It's basically a steel version of the Alfa Brembo. The pads are the same as the Alfa pad. They are similar to an ATE A caliper. The pad has the lower corners trimmed at an angle to make room for the 3.0 mounting bolts. They use slightly smaller through bolts. As the 323iS weighs more than our cars they should be fine without the aluminum flex. I bought several sets and rebuilt them. I still have a couple sets on my shelf. Here is a picture of both and a picture of a early non S Boxster caliper next to my Alfa caliper.

    I just added the picture that has the M, A, and Boxster pad. The caliper on the left is an early front 914 caliper altered to fit the rear SWB trailing arm. The Brembo caliper and the 914 caliper offer a 1.6 front to rear bias ratio which is the ratio Porsche used on these early cars. The SWB non S pistons are 35 mm, the S 38 mm, and the 914 front 42 mm.

    Those restored iron ATE calipers look familiar...
    Rob

  9. #9
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    Update:

    Installed the PMB "M" caliper upgrade last night. Also installed new soft lines, a new hard line that PMB supplies from strut to the brake, Dansk dust shields (So i don't have to cut my recently refinished original T dust shields to clear the calipers, the Dansk fit no mods and are 'cheap'), slotted Sebro front rotors, and R4S pads. Bled everything, bed pads this AM.

    So first the install: these are bolt on - just make sure if you buy them you get the caliper PIN kit, new bolt hardware, AND the hardline so you don't have to make one. Took a few hours to install, most of it making sure I got all the air out of the system and doing some cleaning. My entire brake system is fresh so no balky lines or surprises. WHEW.

    Performance, Pretty substantial improvement in feel, pedal, and stopping performance. My old calipers were just rebuilt and refinished a few k miles ago and in like new condition. But these larger pads do improve the feel and performance more than I expected. For a bolt on upgrade, very happy and I get to keep the rest of the system stock vs. going to larger carrera brakes.

    Want to see a brake pad? :-) This is from the front of my 997GT3RS for 380mm rotor, the 991 pads are even more massive.

    Next on the "I can't keep it stock but it wasn't a stock car since the engine was swapped in '92 anyway so i'm going to mod it because I can't help myself" list is:
    Get my refinished deep6 installed with Pirelli CN36
    Resist the urge to build a hot 2.7/8 EFI motor :-)


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  10. #10
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    Since you did the brakes now you must do the engine! On cars I build that aren't going with 930 turbo brakes I use the S calipers with R4S pads and they are fantastic. I don't buy the flex talk. Mabye, on a straight up track rat of a car.
    72S, 72T now ST

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