First CoA, then PPS, now CTC?

[911MRP]

To Frank's point of what did we do before COA. We did it the through legwork. Thankfully over 25 years I steadily put together a cradle to current day history on my 73 car. Had a good start but added others including fahrzeug-auftrag, factory importer and original dealer documentation and confirmation of authenticity personally addressed letters from factory. Original green UK registration log book that was superceded when vehicle licencing was centralised/computerized, every owner change / cherished licence plate swap from UK vehicle licencing body when it was allowed to provide such info. Lot of legwork over 25 years tracing then meeting people who owned and specialists who looked after car - the POs are now friends. Given photos of car back in their ownership etc. Letters and copies of deposit and final balance sales transaction. PPI reports from specialits done eighties The first owner even gave me written permission to investigate the car history -- at a stroke side-stepping personal data protection issues where his personal data was shown on 45 year old records. The original ( retired) selling dealer principal remembered selling and personally collecting car from Harper's yard which was GB importer place in West London for preparation of new cars. Even told me original purchaser name and home town unprompted after all these years.He kindly gave me various rare documents from his dealership when downsizing home to put in car history file for safekeeing. These good people put Porsche, particularly certain unresponisve factory staff, to shame by providing time, help and info so graciously for free! Certainly their input adds provenance and confidence when so many sketchy history and imposter cars out there.

While it is getting harder no doubt, to be clear some of this info was obtained very recently in fact one formerly missing important tidbit arrived only yesterday. In fairness wouldn't like to start out from scratch these days but PORSCHE are not the only source and angle for research. Expecting to get everything one shot sevice for a vintage vehicle they last saw in OEM network four decades ago is possibly unrealistic. Is the thinking and expectation these days conditioned by our everything should now be available in minutes experience of www and smartphone apps. When the www din't exist there were ways.

Porsche may be the last place to start as some of the folks they employ at factory these days don't seem to give a damn and are actually sometimes rude. I understand companies have regulations and legal considerations but this can be an excuse. When someone in Porsche Germany ignores an email and polite reminder for three months then in my book they've lost the plot on customer relations. A person with PR role for crying out loud! I got fed up with the individual so involved Porsche C--Suite -- I happen to work in Auto / Motorsport industry so had contact -- the unresponsive PR employee then answered the overdue email the very next day and was very apologetic. I can't think of any other corporation that ignores polite correspondence from enthusiastic member of public who own their company's product!

Wasn't always that way. Sadly I miss the old guard at factory who were enthusiasts themselves so helped when approached in the right spirit. Some archive documents would've been destroyed if some hadn't saved them personally.

It doesn't bode well for any new Porsche chargeable authentication service that the only thing I was ever was charged for among the pile of old car history papers was the pre-payment made to Porsche for the COA which had incorrect info - not once but twice. l corrected Porsche COA based on the definitive original source info I already had. Frankly wonder they would've changed content anyway without the hard evidence so of any document this COA is the least value despite the pretty official looking signed format. The Porsche UK exec who signed the COA with repeat factual errors for a lousy fifty quid service should be ashamed. Integrity of brand when authenticity certificate wrong info gets signed off by director of company - unacceptable attention to detail for an OEM. Shocking frankly. That's why I wouldn't trust any COA let alone the watered down offerings. Also as mentioned previously, what store can be put on the new offering depends on who did it and using what criteria. Would be interesting to see which Porsche GB technician from classic roster of staff would do a check for RHD first series RS and how much they really knew. I certainly shan't bother to find out. I once went to the main dealer who were formerly sister retailer to country importer to get a spare part for that model and a counter guy asked me "what's a Carrera RS". Of course can't know all details of every model but other ways of handling it without casting doubt on OEM credibility in their own classic capability. Says it all sadly.

This forum plus DDK is a helpful resource so that's why I chip in with bits I know and ask questions !!!


Steve

[Arne]

I agree with the above, myself. I never ordered a CoA for my '84 Carrera even back when it was a more useful tool (assuming correctness). After all, the car was a driver with 154k miles when I bought it (175k when sold), plus I had the original window sticker, service booklet with engine number, and at least partial records from all 8 previous owners. Of what additional value would the fancy paper have been?

For the new to me '72 T, I had already done my research and was comfortable with what I bought. Yes, my car is matching numbers (engine), and thanks to a contact in Germany that one of the principals in the sale of the car I already knew what the factory options were originally. I even know that it was Tourist Delivery, which is data that a CoA/PPS would not have provided.

Even so, since having the CoA/PPS seemed to be part and parcel of the ownership of the early cars, I ordered it shortly after I had possession of the car.

But in the new watered down form, it has no value to me. Especially since I have no intentions of selling the car any time in the foreseeable future. I've got the info I need, I don't need the paper.

Whatever did we do before CoAs were even offered? Oh, that's right; we didn't care.

True. And now we can not care again. As I mention in my car's thread, I actually find it a bit liberating that neither of the remaining Fuchs on my car are original to it. I need 2 or 3 more to complete the set, the two I have now are several years later than the car. I have absolutely no reason to try to find 2 or 3 wheels with an appropriate date code. No worries, just find some that look correct. After all, no one is going to look at the date codes besides myself. And I'm going to be driving it, not hunting date codes.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Could happen. To make matters worse I think there are only ten or so "classic partner" dealerships. Porsche snoozed on the classic business for years and now wants to make up for lost time and profit. The Treffen thing still chaps me.

The word I'm getting from dealers is there is a big push to have lots of the Certified Classic dealers, they have been doing heavy re-training on their people of late.

---Adam

[steve shea]

Back in my 356 days all of my VIN/authenticity inquiries were answered with a personal letter from Jurgen Barth. Free of course. Those were the days of brand integrity and personal customer relations. The Classic impetus shown by Porsche now is for another potential profit center that, as can be seen here, only serves to drive people away. They could have done better.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I see the whole Classic Center push as having pros and cons. The con is having to drag your car there to get it certified. But the pros are that the more Porsche will support the older vehicles through parts availability, which is always a good thing. Porsche has the clout to go back to one of their suppliers and say we want a run of XXX, go dig out the tooling and make it. The great thing about Porsche is that they are using some of the same suppliers 50 years later.
Another pro is that if you are in an area that doesn't have a solid independent shop to service your car, taking it to the dealer won't be cheap, but they will probably stand behind their work. My local dealer has started doing lots of servicing on older cars, they were re-building a 930 motor last time I was there.
Basically, like everything Porsche these days, it's just going to cost more money than it did last year.

---Adam

[Chuck Miller]

I agree with most of what's been said here... Most of the frustrating roadblocks is a sign of the financial times we live in...
Their time for our perceived value...

As to what we did before....

A few month after I bought my car in '89 I had a few questions so I wrote both Reno and Stuttgart...

A few months later, damn if they both didn't write back...

BTW - My car was sold in June not Sept. … I guess it took that long for Reno to get the news...

I have no CoA... I think these two will do...

[911MRP]

Klaus and Olaf among the good guys who helped me in past. Sad about Olaf

[Jim Morris]

In post #11 above, I was misinformed when I cited $200. as being the expected cost of the Certificate. I was told today by an official the price is expected to be $500.00. My apology.

[72targa]

In post #11 above, I was misinformed when I cited $200. as being the expected cost of the Certificate. I was told today by an official the price is expected to be $500.00. My apology.

That updated price belongs in the "Seriously?" Thread...

[raspy2point2]

We might be jumping the gun here. I called Porsche North America today and they said the CTC will not be out until November 2019 and it will have more information on your car than any other document in the past. He eluded to including numbers after checking with staff while I was on the phone. He also did not know what the price of the CTC would be. I know it sounds a little like a sales job on me about the value of a CTC but sounds like the details on the document have not been finalized as yet. Chris