Need help, is that black or charcoal carpet?

[911MRP]

Could someone explain what "haargarn" actually is. I assume it is a term in carpeting and fabrics industry? Why is it often used in context of 73 Porsche interiors ? Does it help to use it?

Afaik in 73 Porsche simply used terms: velours or perlon. I don't recall seeing Porsche themselves use the word haargarn for the carpet. Not seen the term if memory serves me right despite owning the thick factory maroon ring binder containing many model year actual swatches of the interiors and their part numbers and colour reference numbers. Also the spare parts books and other retail brochures used with customers I'd velours and perlon by car area and model. Also the different levels of luxury options Possibly argument to keep it simple as perlon Vs velours when haaargan on the two factory is confusing to me at least

The carpet in my car is original factory fitted item and is same as Model 73 UK S spec -- velours -- visually it is peper and salt or silver and darker fibres -- the well known shade of most that year. Quite distinctive and recognisable mix when seen with the eye.

Maybe I've missed the factory using the haargarn term but if not the word seems to add confusion rather than using the Porsche terms, numbers.

I'm certainly no carpet bexpert. Open to learn and be corrected if haargarn is an official Porsche material specification term used in 73.

Steve

[tomster]

Neither am I an expert on carpets but as much as I understood "velours" is a kind of weave where the upper loops are cut open to make the "hair" of the carpet stick out giving a "fluffy" feel (=fabricating method). Of course cosiness depends on the yarn used.

I don't recall the terms in the sales brochures exactly but from my memory (at least in MY70) "Zellwoll-Velours" (E+S models) and "Filz" (T models) were used. "Zellwolle" is an artificial product like nylon, viscose or rayon. Filz (I think the English word is "felt") is made from material that is, well, "feltable" (nylon'ish stuff isn't). Since "Haargarn" is a specific kind of yarn consisting mainly of animal hair and a little wool I would think that's what you would exactly need to get: felt. And this "feltability" is the reason for us humans having bad hair days ;-)

I might be completely wrong, but that's what I always thought were the differences...

Just for the record:
haar = hair
garn = yarn

[911MRP]

So is haargarn a different thing than porsche factory or its OEM carpet suppliers actually used for what is called velours in parts book 73?

For example from the 1972/3 parts catalogue factory maroon ring binder paper copy edition II 9/72 where 2 denotes model 1973

No mention of haargarn?

Maybe haargarn is an aftermarket thing similar to OEM factory velours but not exactly identical? I hear haargarn gets used these days but not looked at it alongside original carpet from untrampled carpet area.

When next at my car I need to take a close look at my original carpet to see if the salt and pepper of 73 S spec velours are cut threads : individual threads ..or a loop. Pretty sure from old recollection of looking it over each strand is straight like individual very fine hairlike threads -- silver with dark -- rather than a thread having a curl or hairpin loop or twisted tuft, but frankly I've not looked recently or that carefully to be sure if memory reliable. Frankly my knowledge and ability to describe fibre is lacking but like many here I "recognise" original the 73 velours salt and pepper carpet as there is a "look" to a car with original carpets.

S

[tomster]

I doubt that a(ny) car manufacturer would actually state the material used for their carpeting on the respective brochures or parts catalogue. They tend to create fancy color-names rather than state the bare, nerdy technical details, don't they?
First of all, all of my writing 2 posts above may be utterly boll**ks. It's just I don't know better.
That said, it is well possible that Porsche always used "Haargarn", they just didn't mention. And I bet Haargarn was around way, way before the nylony stuff was even invented.
The latter may also be the same material no matter what brand-names their respective manufaturers came up with (Perlon, Nylon, Zellwolle, Dupontilon, etc...). I guess it depends more on how much silvery/charcoally/blacky yarn you throw in the webbing process.

All in all, I think you just can't compare a 50-year old carpet with (probably) different fabrication methods, some decent wear and a helllotta UV fading with one coming from the roll just 3 weeks ago.
Maybe the guys selling the reproduction carpets should give their sets a litlle treat with a coupla rounds in a tanning booth to get some proper fading. Might be well worth a try...

[911MRP]

I don't know either tbh. That's why I asked about what it is.

I don't have an axe to grind for or against the stuff.

I was wondering if haargarn that seems to get mentioned in a way that sounds like a badge of quality when sourcing replacement carpet these days is one of those many things in early 911 world where conventional wisdom gets accepted as the pukka original authentic to how it actually was in the day?

Is a piece of NOS salt and pepper velours from 73 ACTUALLY haargarn --or not - even if Porsche never called it that? Maybe someone has expertise in carpet materials and knows? My hunch is no based on what I hear isn't one is wool and other nylon?. If different not sure why it often gets mentioned?

I get things age -- I looked in the mirror this morning

I'm just curious if what is often sold and fitted has strayed from the original. So many things contribute to interior that are hard to get like it was -- dash, leather on wheel, grain of vinyl, door pockets shinyness are today's hot topic elswhere...

S

[RSTarga]

I changed out my carpet in the mid 90's from the original. The new stuff was much darker than the original from 73. However now it is just as grey as what I took out, it fades. The dark fades out and the white hairs stays much the same.

[fourteenten]

Black velour (?). Yes, completely black in my M472. I truly believe the carpet and floor mats are 73 original. I could be wrong though...
There is no mention in the Kaufsauftrag about special fabric and weird I can't find this material in the Collar Code and Material Sample book from Model 1970 and up. I think I miss a lot of pages of that sample book but the code could be 000.551.572.01 color 700. I have a sample of 000.551.570.00 that is different material and not as black and has the grey hair stuff in it. A few pictures.

Cees

[John912]

I know this started out as a LWB thread, where the velour carpet went to black, the earlier SWB cars used a carpet that was definitely different, grayer with more white strands. As far as I can tell, that "grayer" wool velour carpet is no longer available. Hopefully someone will prove me wrong because I could use this carpet for a 65 911 resto.

As much as we research and strive to restore these cars as accurately as we can, we need to accept that much of the materials sourced from the OEM (those who supplied the parts and materials originally to Porsche) are no longer available. Best we can do is come close ... or be fortunate enough to get our hands on an all original car!