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Thread: My Martini RSR build project

  1. #21
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    By the way the car is presented with white underneath e.g. wheelarch and jacking point square section presumably Grand Prix white. Handpainted decals as discussed previously.

  2. #22
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    fantastic - thanks heaps Steve. I've written it down.
    How good is this community eh?

  3. #23
    Member #226 R Gruppe Life Member #147
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    I’m sure you figured out the rear bumper you bought has full length bumperetts instead of the short horns that allow for the exhaust underneath.

  4. #24
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    I sure did. and it's on the list of things to fix - thanks!

  5. #25
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    I have a 110litre original genuine RSR plastic tank with 73 date probably surplus to my requirements if you need it. Not repro. Only 10k miles away

  6. #26
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    Was at FOS again today so when passing I took a close-up of thatIMG_20190706_123916.jpg rear bumper detail for you.

    Also shot with well known Porsche personality at the wheel

    IMG_20190706_111753.jpg

    Hope it helps

    Steve
    Last edited by 911MRP; 07-06-2019 at 04:27 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    Thanks again Steve. Doesn't look like Jurgen Barth is enjoying it much.

    The RSRs in 1973 had two electrical (or battery) master cut-off switches, one inside, in the middle of the speaker in the middle of the dashboard, the other one on the left hand (driver) side, just in front of the windshield on the outside. The idea is obviously to remove all electric power and alternator, including from the engine in case of a fire, which was a safety requirement for certain racing categories. The hole in the panel between windshield and hood is however not exactly centered – as that doesn’t fit – but there’s sufficient pictures of RSRs that indicate its correct position as a reference.

    On the other side of that panel is another hole, this one for the fire-extinguisher pull. This also has another in the interior for the driver to operate, but we’ll discuss that one later. The thing with this exterior 'pull' is that various pictures show this one in different locations, so I’m not sure if this one sits OK. The cable from this pull goes via the dashboard/firewall on the passenger side toward the extinguisher.

    IMG_1174.jpgIMG_3125.jpg

    With the front latch panel cut and the oil cooler duct in place, it was time to fit the central oil cooler. The original 1973 RSR had a rectangular oil cooler by Behr, which is pretty much NLA. I guess technically I could have sourced one, but apart from it being really expensive, I didn’t think it makes a lot of sense to put a 45-year-old genuine cooler in. But what are the alternatives?

    A few people have put Mazda RX7 coolers in, Patrick Motorsports offers an alternative (Setrab) and CSF has got what they claim is an exact copy of the RS cooler - which it is not.
    Main thing was that the fitment compared to the grille cut-out in the RSR bumper matches nicely, so I needed to know those dimensions. Then I established the dimensions of the original Behr cooler and made my decision based on the best fit.

    oil-cooler table.JPG

    I listed these here because the dimensions listed on Pbase for the original cooler are wrong and it took me a while to find out what dimensions are required.

    Other small things that needed to be done were the tunnel reinforcement, fitting the harness mounts on the parcel tray, and reinforcing the panels for the swaybar.

    IMG_3013.jpgIMG_3014.jpg

    Again, with regard to the rollbar and safety harness, different cars seem to have different solutions. From various historical pictures it was clear that the rollbar fitted in R6 had a diagonal from the top right to the bottom left (and not the other way around as is more common to protect the driver), and that there was no horizontal bar to mount the harness to the rollbar. The harness in R6 was fitted on 2 points on the parcel tray, which is why we went that way.

    IMG_0605.jpg

    I found this swaybar kit advertised on the web a while ago; all beautifully made in lightweight materials. Other than the no-doubt great set that Elephant Racing offers, this one was modeled exactly like the ones the RSRs used.
    (same kit as Mike used on his immaculate #107 build - picture referenced from his topic on DDK)

    swaybar.jpg
    Last edited by patrick911; 07-07-2019 at 08:49 PM. Reason: typos

  8. #28
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    Using a torch and a variety of scrapers, I removed the protection from the wheel-arches, engine bay, front compartment, & and seam sealer from dashboard, under dash and rear seats, which was an awful tedious job.
    I must have spent about 200 hours now on this and am running quickly out of Spotify playlists.

    But now the car was on the rotisserie in the workshop, I finally could complete the underside of the car and the underside of the parcel shelf. I spent 2 Saturday mornings and 3 full days working on that, and it still isn’t quite finished.
    Anyway, the last bits will be done by the workshop now, as I'm well and truly over it, and other than welding the brackets for the shortened trailing arms on, welding the rollbar brackets and cut/fit/weld the new panel for the pedal-cluster, the metal work is as good as complete. So I hope that next month the car can get blasted and primed.

    IMG_3196.jpgIMG_3194.jpg

    This brings up the next part: Paint.
    The Konradheim RS book mentioned that the factory ‘werks’ RSRs were initially delivered in GrandPrix white over a grey primer, which is collaborated by various pictures I found of the cars on the web, specifically those of R6 being restored to its LeMans running form when it was owned by Peter Kitchak.

    Those pictures are especially informative, as they show that other than the outside of the car, everything was white. The wheel-arches, trunk, engine bay, inside of the ducktail, interior, all is white.

    IMG_4182a.JPGIMG_4175a.JPG

    With the recent restoration of T6 being shown on the Maxted Page website, it was also clear that their research confirmed the car to be white with only the visible outside being silver.
    Steve (911MRP) confirmed what the Maxted-Page build progress already suggested, that the underside of the car is without ‘schutz’ and painted white.

    26.jpg
    pic taken from the Maxted-Page website

    The silver color used for the outside body of the Martini cars is said to be Porsche colour 6206 ‘Silver metallic’, a Glasurit single-stage urethane silver, Glassodur 6206 line 55 that Porsche only used until 1963 apparently.

    On the inside, the dashboard, inside of the doors, mounting points of the rollover bar, the footwell (except floor so all vertical parts), the handbrake & shifter area and seat brackets are all painted by hand in satin black, with the typical messy overspray the factory guys applied. Not sure of the satin black paint code, but I’ve seen people use ‘glasurit rally black’? Any suggestions?

  9. #29
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    The problem with paint starts when you get to the Martini stripes, the famous light blue, dark blue and red, as lots of variations on this have been used over the years. The recent ones used by the Porsche factory on the 918 car for example, look more like the Martini stripes that Lancia used in the eighties than those you find on the 917 or 911 RSRs. Maybe thatís to do with the background being white or silver, but theyíre clearly different.

    The colours that are trademarked by Martini & Rossi are more like those recently used on the Williams F1 car. Thereís a few topics here and on Pelican about Martini colours, but as Mike Moore said before, thereís no definite answer.

    So Iíve collected multiple pictures from various sources, took multiple samples of each, then took an average and compared. I then selected what I liked best and compared those against the colours I found on my 1:18 scale model car (GT-Spirit), assuming that they would have researched the car quite well.

    Capture.JPG

    I am not listing the colors I selected here, because I don't want anyone to mistake this for the correct martini colors in the future. If someone wants to know though, Iím happy to provide what Iíve used.

    Then there was the question about what the company did back in 1973? Did they paint the stripes, the logo's. the numbers? And what about the smaller sponsors, where those decals or painted?
    Again, no-one has been able to provide a definitive answer, although I'm sure there's people that should know, but there's two references I can use: Mike Moore decided to paint everything, even the smaller sponsor logo's, whereas the restored R6 seems to have all painted except for the number 8 and the smaller (Bosch & Shell) logos. I still have to find a paintshop and discuss options, but I'm leaning toward doing what the R6 restoration team has done.

  10. #30
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    I currently don’t have any build progress to report on, so I may use the coming weeks to list a few of the details that make the factory cars different.
    Seeing the limited amount of responses on this thread though, I really hope this topic adds value.

    My intention by sharing this here is to learn more about the why and how of some of these things, archive it (give back to the place I always turned to for information) and maybe discover details that I missed or got wrong.

    When Mike Moore was building his fantastic #107 Martini prototype RSR a few years ago, he mentioned a special rear view mirror he managed to find somewhere. Compared to the standard mirror, this one has a reduced height, and as a result is a bit lighter too.
    I knew the factory did many things to reduce the weight of their racing cars, but this is taking it quite to another level. It was only after I spotted a picture of R6 – in its Le Mans guise - with that different mirror visible, that I figured I needed one of those cool rarities too.

    thumbnail_mirror01-0588targawinner.jpg

    So what is it?

    The standard 911 rear view mirror is 914.731.014.12, of which reproductions can be bought at various places. I never heard of this before but this racing variant is longer (220mm), narrower (48mm) and a bit lighter (220g versus 300g). Turns out they’re originally from a 914-6 but used on STs and RSRs apparently. Described in this topic as:

    NOS RACING INTERNAL REAR VIEW MIRROR,
    USED FOR ALL 911 S/T/RS LIGHT/RSR RACING CARS, (AND FOR 914/6 CARS) USED BECAUSE OF ITS DIMENSION AND LIGHTNESS.
    914 731 002 10 / 914 731 014 11 NLA

    thumbnail_mirror-rsr-winningcar.jpg
    Picture taken from Mike Moore's topic, added here because it contained the item code

    Problem is, going by the photos of R6 during the Targa, I can’t be certain if it had this mirror or not.
    It sure had it later in the season and in its restored form in the nineties and noughties, but when did they put it in? Before or after the Targa? R6 in its current restored form has a regular mirror, so those guys must have been sure it didn’t have a smaller racing mirror at the Targa. Then again, they got some other details wrong so who knows?

    porsche 1973 911_targa_florio_8.jpg
    R6 at the Targa Florio - I can't see it, but it looks like a regular mirror to me.

    Anyway, when I noticed a used racing rear view mirror advertised here on the forum a year or two ago I checked if it was still for sale and jumped on it.
    It’s got a bit of patina, which I think is awesome; After all I’m replicating a 46 year old car so a slightly worn look is exactly what I need.

    IMG_0755.jpg

    But should I put it on?

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