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Thread: Has anyone gone thru the new C of A process with a car like ours?

  1. #31
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr914 View Post
    What are the possibilities that there are two albert blue 1818 5 speed coupes that close in line exported to the US?
    there is a high probability that there were two albert blue cars close in line - as they painted them in batches. The possibility that they both went to the USA is less but still high as the US accounted for a large percentage of the sales. Even in the deliveries to a small market like Australia there were numerous examples of cars with close to sequential vin numbers being imported (although as we are a RHD country and RHD cars tended to be made in batches as well that was one factor in them often being close in vin number) Also as the production number is the start of the manufacturing process (when the order to produce the car is sent to the production line) it is quite possible that they processed a batch of USA ordered cars in sequence which would be sequential production numbers but not necessarily sequential vin numbers. Have a look at that second list above and you will see sequential production (and vin) numbers going to the one major distributor - ie 114 Otto Glockler Frankfurt
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  2. #32
    Thank you very much for the input, Hugh, in fact I know that"

    9110100212 is albert blue
    911010021? is albert blue (mine) 1000491
    9110100216 is albert blue 1000493
    9110100219 is albert blue (sporto)1000497

    I have basic information on some others close in number but no production numbers for them and no color for them. Too bad, so close yet so far away. I know that there are many at Porsche who could solve my problem easily but just as the COAs now have limited information, they refuse to help

    Quote Originally Posted by HughH View Post
    there is a high probability that there were two albert blue cars close in line - as they painted them in batches. The possibility that they both went to the USA is less but still high as the US accounted for a large percentage of the sales. Even in the deliveries to a small market like Australia there were numerous examples of cars with close to sequential vin numbers being imported (although as we are a RHD country and RHD cars tended to be made in batches as well that was one factor in them often being close in vin number) Also as the production number is the start of the manufacturing process (when the order to produce the car is sent to the production line) it is quite possible that they processed a batch of USA ordered cars in sequence which would be sequential production numbers but not necessarily sequential vin numbers. Have a look at that second list above and you will see sequential production (and vin) numbers going to the one major distributor - ie 114 Otto Glockler Frankfurt

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep View Post
    The production book that I am aware of covers 1965 through 1967. I am sure that there should be others, but have no confirmation of that. You definitely need to have access to a source who has access to the factory archive. A friend happened to take a picture of the book.
    Yes, the museum archive holds ledger books for each model in each model year. Deiter L. (head of the archive at that time) showed our group, when touring the museum and archive, the ledger book for the '73 Carrera RS cars. Turning to the page of the ledger and showing me the hand written entry for my RS. The ledger had '360' on the outer cover. I watched him place the book back on shelf that was full of other ledgers of multiple years. I have no idea how many years Porsche kept records like this but certainly all the early 911 model years had these ledgers. What was really cool, was all the hand written entries (VIN, production #, engine #, transmission #, color code and interior material, option codes, and production date) were all in the same exact hand writing.

    They also have the original factory production sheets used by the workers to document the details of the production of the cars as they moved through the manufacturing process. Examples of these can be seen in the Carrera RS book.
    Brian
    '73 Carrera RS #451
    '71 S coupe 'Patrick'

    R Gruppe #299
    Early S Reg. #404

  4. #34
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    George, It is not as simple as you may think. For example, look at the printout on post 22. The list is sorted by VIN but the production #'s bounce around a fair bit. There is no need for 491 to have been used within the small VIN range you think. Second, if it was easy to find then they would have found it for us already. That leads me to believe it could be one of several possibilities. Those are: it was not a 911T and the 911E and 911S possibilities were ignored; all possibilities were checked, but still not found so records have errors or are incomplete; if an error or an incomplete record, then the data would have to be examined over the whole year range to determine what is missing or duplicated. If the data is currently available on in paper form, then the sorting used could reveal a missing or duplicated entry for that sort item; for any other sort item the data would need to be digitized again so that new sort criteria could be used. If the data is currently available in digitized form, then various sorts could be used to see if missing or duplicated entries can be found. I am sure they would not want to admit to errors or missing data; that would call into question the usefulness of their records. What we have found so far indicates that their records are not 100% correct or useful. If the records were digitized then the various sorts could be done and possibilities found in well under an hour of effort. The fact that has not been done indicates an unwillingness to do so.
    Porsche Historian, contact for Kardex
    Addicted since 1975, ESR mbr# 2200 to 2020 03
    Researching Paint codes and Engine Build numbers

  5. #35
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    http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...hlight=auftrag

    If any discrepancies were found during a sort, then the Fahrzeug-auftrag (production order) could be checked to verify information and make corrections. Really, the F-A is the document we want for the cars from 1970 through 1980.
    Porsche Historian, contact for Kardex
    Addicted since 1975, ESR mbr# 2200 to 2020 03
    Researching Paint codes and Engine Build numbers

  6. #36
    Dave, since I know for a fact that this is a 911t Porsche produced not Karmann (totally original never had sway bars nor 911s gauge package, original perlon carpet etc, and the fact that all of the production numbers around the numbers 210-219 are all very close to mine, and the fact through your good efforts they could not find a production number 1000491 in the records, I would begin to believe that maybe they made a mistake and my number is the 216 car which is an albert blue T five speed exported to the USA. PLUS because of your good work of equating id numbers to production numbers in your file, I was able to calculate that my number was around 219, and then was verified that 210 was 1000497, albert blue sportomatic exported to the US I knew that I was very very close. As Hugh stated, cars of the same color and same destination made together, make me even more convicted to think that I am very close . If I had the production numbers for 210-220. I would really be closer, don't you agree Dave?

  7. #37
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    Yes, the more data the better. Also, yes the cars (by production #) are normally completed very quickly in a group; but could be T or E or S. If you request more info, be sure they check ALL 3 models.
    Porsche Historian, contact for Kardex
    Addicted since 1975, ESR mbr# 2200 to 2020 03
    Researching Paint codes and Engine Build numbers

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