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Thread: A Proposal to Establish Member Control of the ESR

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  1. #1

    A Proposal to Establish Member Control of the ESR

    I make this post on behalf of myself, John Paterson, and other senior members of the ESR including, Ed Mayo (edmayo), Eric Linden (soterik), Steve Shea (steve shea), Curtis Autenrieth (curtisaa), Rick Cabell (Rick Cabell), Mike Fitton (mfitton), David Rocha (RSTarga), Doug DePew (nvr2mny), Steven Schulman (69Sman), Jos Hall (jos.hall), Anthony Meija (mejia_anthony), Stephen Stuart (StephenAcworth), Mark Dowden (NZVW), Russell Hibbard (Bullethead), Seth Oestreicher (setho), Lewis Eig (blucille), Frank Torchia (71gold), Paul Xifaras (pgxif), Paul Norris (PMNorris) and Simon Beaumont (Simonjjb). Many others have also voiced their approval but were not comfortable posting their name in a public forum.

    The individuals above have approved this post and given me permission to use their names. All of us, although having differences in opinions regarding recent issues under discussion, have one thing in common: we care about the ESR and want to see it grow and prosper.

    An organization like ours is only as strong as its members. And our leadership is only as strong as those who choose to lead. We are blessed here to have a richness and diversity of membership that would be the envy of many organizations ten times our size. We, the members named above, say that it is time we harness that incredible asset for the benefit of the ESR and our members.

    We look forward to a civil and productive discussion regarding the proposal below and invite Jorge Perez, Chuck Miller, and Michael Hammond to take part.

    A Proposal to Establish Member Control of the ESR

    1. The bylaws will be amended to allow dues-paying members to vote on the ESR leadership.

    2. A new board of trustees will be established consisting of 7 directors with 3-year terms.

    3. For the initial board, the 3 current directors (Jorge Perez, Chuck Miller, and Michael Hammond) will be asked to serve an initial 2-year term. 4 new directors will be elected by the members to initial 3-year terms. All future elections will be for 3-year terms. This will ensure than there are always at least 3 directors on the board with experience in club business.

    4. President, Vice-President, Secretary, Treasurer and committee chairpersons shall be positions appointed by the Trustees at their option.

    5. The Trustees may create committees from time to time including, but not limited, to the following: Technical, Finance, Membership, and Policy. Committee chairpersons shall be appointed by and from the Trustees and all members in good standing will be eligible to serve.

    6. A new, reputation-based forum moderation policy will be established that allows forum participants to rate the posts of fellow forum participants. Future bans will be made according to a transparent moderation policy, free of potential bias, and combined with data from a reputation-based score. An appeals process will be established for all bans lasting more than 10 days.

    7. Recognizing that our previous moderation policy was imperfect, past members who have previously left the ESR either due to a disagreement with our moderators, or via a ban resulting from the previous moderation policy, will be invited to return with a clean slate under the new policy.
    Last edited by LiveFromNY; 09-12-2019 at 10:03 PM.
    Member # 2530
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  2. #2
    Great, GREAT job John, thanks for taking the lead on this....
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    GONE...MANY, many great ones....

  3. #3
    Senior Member nvr2mny's Avatar
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    Thank you JP and yes you are absolutely correct in stating “we care about the ESR and want to see it grow and prosper”. This is NOT about ego(s), power or personality differences, it’s, imo, helping position the ESR for the future.
    Reg#2218

  4. #4
    Senior Member jim amato's Avatar
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    Looks like #7 is to get the village idiot back in, all this bs looks like the beginning of the end.
    registry #2072

  5. #5
    Senior Member curtisaa's Avatar
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    …….finally !!!
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  6. #6
    Senior Member StephenAcworth's Avatar
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    For what it is worth, here are my own reasons for supporting what I consider an open move to commence a really important debate about protecting the future of the ESR:

    1. The ESR has considerable value created primarily through the forum content posted by fee-paying members and other subscribers;

    2. Under the current governance structure, it appears that value could be exploited in a manner that doesn’t take the interests of the fee-paying members and other subscribers into account by an unelected board of the ESR (a hypothetical situation that in no way suggests any wrong doing by any of the current board – I have a lot of respect for all the individual work undertaken by all those involved with the day-to-day running of the forum – Chuck, Peter, Ashton, etc.,); and

    3. The proposal is primarily designed to enable the fee-paying membership to play their part in ensuring that the ESR and its associated forum remains an asset of the fee-paying membership, and that the fee-paying members have a democratic voice in the overall governance of the ESR.

    As a serious aside, I don’t wholly agree with point #7: as I have publicly stated in this thread, I think Frank made a choice over what he posted, but I also believe that the forum needs transparency regarding the application of the stated rules of engagement and that the proposal starts a legitimate conversation about how that can happen.

    Sincerely

    Stephen
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    Member # 1616

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jim amato View Post
    Looks like #7 is to get the village idiot back in.
    Assuming you're referring to Frank Beck (and I, for one, hope the nickname sticks), this point is by no means aimed exclusively at him, although he would certainly be eligible.

    Over the last several years, we've lost several valuable members over disagreements with the way the ESR is run. This week, I've had the pleasure of speaking with many of our most senior members and, without question, the topic that came up the most was this exodus of irreplaceable knowledge and experience. Speaking for myself, I believe that each of those individuals is an asset worth recovering and, under a new leadership structure, they should be invited to return. Of course, this would ultimately be up to a board that was elected by our members. A board that, ideally, would represent our interests and values as a whole.
    Member # 2530
    The early ones...
    1965 911 (301100), 1965 911 (301331), 1967 912/6, 1968 912 Soft Window Targa, 1969 911S Soft Window Targa, 1969 912 Coupe, 1969 912 Sunroof Coupe, 1970 911T Sunroof Coupe, 1972 911T Coupe, 1973 911S Targa

  8. #8
    Senior Member jim amato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveFromNY View Post
    Assuming you're referring to Frank Beck (and I, for one, hope the nickname sticks), this point is by no means aimed exclusively at him, although he would certainly be eligible.

    Over the last several years, we've lost several valuable members over disagreements with the way the ESR is run. This week, I've had the pleasure of speaking with many of our most senior members and, without question, the topic that came up the most was this exodus of irreplaceable knowledge and experience. Speaking for myself, I believe that each of those individuals is an asset worth recovering and, under a new leadership structure, they should be invited to return. Of course, this would ultimately be up to a board that was elected by our members. A board that, ideally, would represent our interests and values as a whole.
    yes jp it was was of his many pseudonym that he gave himself, remember the "bully" post? after that his pseudonym was "I am a bully"
    registry #2072

  9. #9
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    Why do you use the term "Senior members" ?


    Quote Originally Posted by LiveFromNY View Post
    Assuming you're referring to Frank Beck (and I, for one, hope the nickname sticks), this point is by no means aimed exclusively at him, although he would certainly be eligible.

    Over the last several years, we've lost several valuable members over disagreements with the way the ESR is run. This week, I've had the pleasure of speaking with many of our most senior members and, without question, the topic that came up the most was this exodus of irreplaceable knowledge and experience. Speaking for myself, I believe that each of those individuals is an asset worth recovering and, under a new leadership structure, they should be invited to return. Of course, this would ultimately be up to a board that was elected by our members. A board that, ideally, would represent our interests and values as a whole.
    58 356 Sunroof Coupe
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jim amato View Post
    Looks like #7 is to get the village idiot back in, all this bs looks like the beginning of the end.
    We hope it’s the beginning of a New beginning. The key is that decorum rules will be stated by the membership representatives that are clear on what will be a violation. And if frank doesn’t change he will be banned. That’s the key. I’ve been very critical of frank, but there needs to be clarity and consistency in our rules. You have to fight to maintain something like this site. It doesn’t just live on forever by itself.

    But what’s more important to me is that we need financial and decision transparency. Every club that I belong to that has membership fees and asks for donations has always done this. ESR decided in the past not to do so.
    1971 911S Coupe - Gemini Blue
    1974 914 2.0 - Yellow
    1997 993 C4S Coupe - Silver

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