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Thread: My new 911S....help required

  1. #21
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Matthew
    do you mean the aluminium one that is riveted on (or do you mean the actual piece of metal that the number is stamped into in the front trunk on RHS - UK driver side) - I hope you don't mean the latter
    if it is the aluminium one there should be two tags on the front latch panel - one the vin tag and the other the BS AU 48 tag which I think is about seatbelts or similar - all UK cars had the latter plate

    Here are some photos of them on a UK delivered 69S
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    your car, as it now sits, probably does not have that panel to fix it to at present


    Quote Originally Posted by Nashman View Post
    First dumb question then...UK supplied March 1969 RHD 911S...where should the VIN tag sit?...on the front panel under the bonnet (hood) or on the A pillar - if so which side. It has been repainted so may times I can't match up any holes. I have the original tag which has been removed at some point - presumably for painting....

    Thanks also for your information and encouragement so far.

    Matthew
    Hugh Hodges
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  2. #22
    Perfect..thanks Hugh...exactly right - it has been changed for later one which will be why it is not fixed...thankfully I have it and the AU 48 tag also.

    Just what I needed....I can happily drill some new ones as that panel will be swapped over during its rebuild.

    Thanks

    Matthew

  3. #23
    Senior Member Nicklasliljegren's Avatar
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    The BS AU 48 tag looks like an add-on. Maybe it's affixed by inspectors once the car arrives in the country, or perhaps it's added by Porsche dealer staff? Anyone knows for sure?

    Best Nick

  4. #24
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    I always understood that the UK only BS AU 48 plate was put on at the factory to show that the car complied with UK specs
    in a similar way Australian cars had a plate put on at the factory to record what Australian design rules the car complies with. That still happens with modern cars. thisis the ADR plate on my car
    Name:  aust compliance.jpg
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    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Nicklasliljegren's Avatar
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    Hugh,
    It was just a thought. The position of that tag is not spot on and seems to differ. see for example this thread:
    http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...Vin-plate-mean
    And on the other factory plates, tags / decals it says that Porsche has manufactured the vehicle and certifies that it meets the requirements (eg the door jamb sticker and the sticker on the fan and the sticker on the window for CA cars).
    I have to check if my car have one of these. Its a US spec car, but delivered in England. It was ordered through Nemet Auto International.
    Best Nick
    Last edited by Nicklasliljegren; 10-15-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Nick
    i think only UK spec cars got those regardless of where they were delivered. (when being built the factory workers would not have neccessarily known where they were being delivered to but would have known what spec they were being built to)
    I know that all the other plates have a lot more info about manufacturer etc (although if you see my ADR plate above the space to put that on was there but they did not in my case but did in some others I have seen - typical "hand built" consistency )
    i suspect that as there were no holes there the placing may have ended up being a little different car to car and may even be as different as the one on the blue targa shown on that other thread
    Also I know that the red car I pictured has been through a few restorations and colour change as well so the position may have been altered at one of those times
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

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  7. #27
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    As usual the knowledgable and data rational Hugh is bang on about our quirky plate even from the other side of the planet
    I am fairly familiar with British Cars but I've always things to learn.... here's what I think I know:
    The fahrzeug auftrag which is the production order was created after the customer dealer importer order gave the Komm Nr but she gnificantly before the Vin number applied to car or the adjacent plate.

    This fahrzeug auftrag is the key document in our cars

    Kardex if they apply is also useful to supplement but picks ups after sale so relatively late in cycle after car is complete afaik whereas the Fahrzeug-aftrag even predates the physical build and tracks its footprints; a day in the life of a vehicle build as it were. That background is important in context of questions like this one imo.

    The Fahrzeug-aftrag was in those days a multi part carbon set one copy of which was affixed to the car on the line see below. It served as a kind of build summary sheet to guide and record the build. In the case of cars destined for the British market (I know because I have my car's sheets) the fahrzeug auftrag does indicate: C16 equipment code, England and RL-- latter meaning which side of road/wheel. This sheet and associated information gave the workers the build spec.

    Because the UK only joined the common market on Jan of 73 there were a variety of standards and regulations in place for the majority longhood era even within the continent of Europe. One country standard for UK required the seat belt anchorage points to conform to the British Standard AU 48 of 14 June 1965. This standard was modified in 71 but in essence still mounting point not belt per se.

    Cars came from factory to the UK with the seatbelt anchorage points in the chassis so good reason the plate was fitted during build as that was a safety critical operation evident within C16/EG -- not local adaptation (but I can't be 100 percent on that supposition). The rivets of plate in question are very similar to the nearby alloy chassis plate suggest so to. I think variation on position is the handbuilt nature and the by exception requirement for one country market with hundred only per annum. The fact the form and quality of the plate is along lines of the nearby chassis plate also seems to suggest it was from same source on Germany -- so not local in UK importer.

    I have posted extensively on the topic of RHD seatbelts if you search they have a different BSI standard number and have the BSI kite mark

    Still got my original belts and some identical no's bnib.

    There is also a second code EG alongside komm nr. Importers at the time specified a level of spec on country -- in case if UK was higher than the spec shown for Germany. There is a check box by model as part of my pres release and local price lists that give this . Seatbelts however aren't mentioned in that so I believe they are part of the C16 bundle or on earlier days option on top-- by model 73 the seatbelts on RS were standard but for early cars Kangol not usually Repa afiak until later series.

    Seatbelts were on the option list circa £12 iirc and many of the UK cars were Kangol at the time a British brand. I believe the fact these were often found in British market cars using the approved mountings points to belts being fitted to the Au48 mounts by the importer Porsche Cars Great Britain. I assume factory would've used repa components

    I have photos of new press cars in 72 and 73 with these Kangol statics. All cars arrived here by transporter and were stored nearby in Harper's yard for initial prep before moving to dealer for final prep. My 73 car was collected by slaesman and owner on trade plates an driven form importer to dealer --
    He told me the story .
    Here is a car on the line with its fahrzeug auftrag attached. Having that document there are many marks and alterations and stamps that is the chronology of the build with figuratively ( literally) fingerprints if the workers. See my comments elsewhere -- Porsche are actively stoping such info leaving

    Incidentally I had an internship with British Standards Institute as a pup before graduating university -- some fine minds worked there and pulled in experts across standards for all areas and industries so it was great for a kid to get a "quality management/ standards" grounding so early on my career. I think that informed my perspective on options, variants, configuration management, engineering release and conforming to specs throughout my career in engineering and complex manufacturing operations.

    Are you in the UK?

    Apologies if these words are too long and boring.Hope it helps

    Steve

    A few pictures:

    This is a transporter from factory arriving at PCGB in West London. Name:  IMG_20191013_201228.jpg
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    This is a car with fahrzeug auftrag on the line circa spring 73
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    Last edited by 911MRP; 10-15-2019 at 04:42 PM.

  8. #28
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    This is a photo from a brand new rhd 911 S car around Jan 72. No detail but positioning can be determined wrt other plate so presumably as done on. The day
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Nicklasliljegren's Avatar
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    Steve,

    Your info was the opposite of boring. Thx for shareing.
    Best Nick

  10. #30
    Thanks Steve...this is very informative and as Nick says...anything but boring. Yes, car is in UK and I hope to drive it with its new brakes next week.....love the pictures - all of which will help position the vin tags correctly when the time comes.

    Cheers Matthew

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