Karmann built 911 and 912 bodies

[LongRanger]

Sorry 'bout that --- added the link . . .





............

[haul]

https://youtu.be/SlwBUzCn5VU

To get some clearance and insight infos on the subject.
in the above linked video, the german 912 group is visiting the former karmann factory.

from min 7.0 there is a small look around above the built cars. At min 8:20 Klaus Dieter Ulrich, coordinator for the Car Collection at Volkswagen Osnabrück is asked about exact this issue:

„...what had been delivered by karmann? complete cars, or only state coach builts?...“

„There had never been a complete
car built at Karmann!“

„....the chassis structure/state coach had been built, the paint and a part assembly had been done, this means complete except engine and the driving and coupled axes....“

etc

Lewandowski claims in the „50 years 912“ book, that from 67 onwards complete cars had been built at Karmann...

to shorten the info:
as from the video, all glas, trims, wire harness, carpets, seats, etc except the dampers, engine and gearbox has been manufactured at karmann and then delivered to porsche.

I remember from another video „made by hand“ that the ready painted 356 cab chassis are sideloaded on a truck and transported to the factory...

br

haul

[911T1971]

Thanks davep

Porsche bought Reutter in 1963 so the Reutter badges disappeared from the sides of the 356C in 1964
In Lewandowski's book there is a reference to Karmann charging extra for the trimmed and painted body shells with the inference that it was an unexpected expense that Porsche did not originally budget for.
Reading between the lines,Porsche's original agreement with Nordhoff must have been not to pay for tooling and for the primered only shells to be delivered to Porsche's new in 1969 paint shop.
These extra costs enforced by VW and Karmann at near production time were the reason the 914-6 sold in the USA for US$6000 instead of US$4000
I was aware of the request by Lodz for the tooling share cost but not the Karmann demand
Hence my asking about the prior arrangements with Karmann for the 911/912 and 356 body shells
Porsche should have bank financed the project and gone it alone with the 914-6 instead of getting into the VW viper pit at a time of turmoil at VW

thanks
Dennis

Dennis, Porsche was getting Royalties for every VW Beetle VW sold.
Also, they partly financed the 917 program run by Ferdinand Piech.
And Ferdinand Piech‘s father was running the VW/KdF factory at Fallersleben/Wolfsburg before/during WW2.
And Nordhoff’s daughter was married to someone from the Porsche clan, forgot who.
And Porsche did plenty of development for VW, among developing the VW Beetle replacement, later abandoned when Nordhoff died.
Porsche without VW would long be bancrupt or better, never would exist at all

[Jules Dielen]

mistake from my side...the plant in rheine was opened in 1965 bmw coupes where produced there and from 1966 on also porsche bodies...dont know how finished they where sent to P.


Schon vor dem Auslaufen des Hardtop-Coupés war in Osnabrück die Produktion des normalen 356er-Coupés mit flacherem Dach angelaufen, Porsche verkaufte immer besser und hatte inzwischen auch einen Teil der Produktion nach Belgien ausgelagert. Dort baute D’Ieteren Frères in Brüssel 356er-Cabriolets, die auf Wunsch mit einem festen Dach, einem Hardtop, von Karmann winterfest gemacht wurden. Die Osnabrücker durften damals ein Fabrikschild in diesen Teilen sichtbar verbauen, sodass heute noch deren Ursprung gekennzeichnet ist. Das belgische Werk ist übrigens der Ursprung der heutigen Audi-Fabrikation in Brüssel.

Auch Modelle des 356er-Nachfolgers, des legendären Porsche 911, liefen bei Karmann vom Band. Allerdings nicht im Stammwerk Osnabrück, sondern im 1965 eröffneten Zweigwerk in Rheine. Neben den eleganten Coupés von BMW (2000 CS und Nachfolger) und dem Opel Diplomat gab es dort Fertigungsanlagen für den Ur-911er, das Coupé. Start der Produktion war 1966, gleichzeitig mit dem Sechszylinder 911 kamen dort die sehr viel günstigeren 912er-Typen mit den Vier-Zylinder-Motoren aus den Werkshallen. Bis zur Einstellung der Produktion im März 1971 gab es fast 22000 Autos dieser Baureihe aus Osnabrück.


https://www.noz.de/lokales/osnabruec...ery&0&1&207971

This is also not correct as D'ieteren only built Roadsters (473 T5 and 249 T6) not cabs - and roadsters never had a Karmann hardtop. It does not exist.

[moito]

And Nordhoff’s daughter was married to someone from the Porsche clan, forgot who.

to ernst piech(still married i guess at least you can see them walking around in the old town of salzburg frequently) the oldest brother of ferdinand

[haul]

to ernst piech(still married i guess at least you can see them walking around in the old town of salzburg ) the oldest brother of ferdinand

and carlos abarth married the secretary of anton pīech....

[moito]

and carlos abarth married the secretary of anton pīech....

and carlos was born austrian not italian as some might think

[gulf908]

thanks Karim

sometimes we get too focused on a subject that we lose sight of the big picture
the late sixties were a time of great changes at VW -air cooled to water cooled - management changes - the Beetle's loss of popularity - the Japanese invasion - and the transition for Porsche from a small specialist maker to one to be had to be taken more seriously
I still wish that Porsche could have done the 914-6 by themselves

cheers
Dennis

[kaufmanp]

quote:

witing an article for a local magazine on 3 local RHD 914s here in Australia
I have been reading Lewandowski's book 50 Years 914 which refers to Karmann supplying trimmed shells to Porsche who completed the 914-6s with their own mechanicals

Does anyone know if the early 911s,or 356s for that matter, that Karmann built and sent to Porsche were trimmed and painted shells or just primered shells ?
Excellent + book BTW - more twists and turns than a plate of Tony's spaghetti bolognaise !



My brothers former employer (Solicitor) was Owner (or may still be in family's possession) of a 914/6 that was purchased new in the early seventies that resided in Sydney.
I believe it was purchased new from Scuderia Veloce in Lindfield and converted TO RHD by Dutton's in Melbourne prior to delivery.
his business partner was Pat Burke a well known Porsche owner and collector.

[gulf908]

yes Peter this is one of the three which is now being rebuilt

cheers
Dennis