Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: Karmann built 911 and 912 bodies

  1. #1
    Senior Member gulf908's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,154

    Karmann built 911 and 912 bodies

    Hi

    I am writing an article for a local magazine on 3 local RHD 914s here in Australia
    I have been reading Lewandowski's book 50 Years 914 which refers to Karmann supplying trimmed shells to Porsche who completed the 914-6s with their own mechanicals

    Does anyone know if the early 911s,or 356s for that matter, that Karmann built and sent to Porsche were trimmed and painted shells or just primered shells ?
    Excellent + book BTW - more twists and turns than a plate of Tony's spaghetti bolognaise !

    thanks
    Dennis
    1970 914-6 - materialised from the 'Lotto' garage into reality
    1971 2.2 911 S - now back in the UK - sob!
    1975 Carrera Targa (ROW) - missed.
    One of us is fast becoming a valuable antique.
    S Registry member 536
    Australian TYP 901 Register Member 44

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Burford, ON, Canada
    Posts
    4,237
    I am not sure when Porsche brought body building and paint in house, but Reutter delivered trimmed bodies to the Porsche assembly line well after 911 production started. I am not sure if Karmann fully built any of the cars, but certainly the bodies would have been fully trimmed. The 914/4 was completely built by Karmann. D'Ieteren was famous for the twin grille 356 roadsters, and built complete cars, plus shipped trimmed bodies to Porsche for final assembly.
    Porsche Historian, contact for Kardex & CoA-type Reports
    Addicted since 1975, ESR mbr# 2200 to 2024 03
    Researching Paint codes and Engine Build numbers

  3. #3
    Senior Member moito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    AUSTRIA (tu felix)
    Posts
    6,699
    due to beeing not a native speaker i`m not sure what`s the definition of trimmed body is. but when comparing karmann and Reutter/porsche bodies of the same year one can see that there is differences in how schutz is applied .i don`t know if painted bodies or even pre assmbled shells where delivered to the factory.
    but what sens would it make to let reutter send painted and pre assembled cars to the factory but karmann only sends unpainted shells...i even would think karmann has sent the bodies in the same stage of assembling as reutter did...
    just yesterday i talked about this to Guido Eickholz,owner of the reutter shop and the big reutter arcive..... he does not know eighter.

    i guess i will do a bit of googeling tonight

    btw not all of the karmann 911/912 bodies did come from the osnabrück plant but from the rheine

  4. #4
    Senior Member Scott A's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    South East USA
    Posts
    897
    moito,

    Can you give more detail about 911/912 not being built in Osnabrück, but the Rheine?
    did Karmann have several plant locations? and send the bodies to Stuttgart by train?
    or did the cars never go to stuttgart? They were just completely finished up in Rheine?


    I lived in Osnabrück.

    Current long term ownership: 63 Cab, 71 911, 74 914

  5. #5
    Senior Member moito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    AUSTRIA (tu felix)
    Posts
    6,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott A View Post
    moito,

    Can you give more detail about 911/912 not being built in Osnabrück, but the Rheine?
    did Karmann have several plant locations? and send the bodies to Stuttgart by train?
    or did the cars never go to stuttgart? They were just completely finished up in Rheine?


    I lived in Osnabrück.
    mistake from my side...the plant in rheine was opened in 1965 bmw coupes where produced there and from 1966 on also porsche bodies...dont know how finished they where sent to P.


    Schon vor dem Auslaufen des Hardtop-Coupés war in Osnabrück die Produktion des normalen 356er-Coupés mit flacherem Dach angelaufen, Porsche verkaufte immer besser und hatte inzwischen auch einen Teil der Produktion nach Belgien ausgelagert. Dort baute D’Ieteren Frères in Brüssel 356er-Cabriolets, die auf Wunsch mit einem festen Dach, einem Hardtop, von Karmann winterfest gemacht wurden. Die Osnabrücker durften damals ein Fabrikschild in diesen Teilen sichtbar verbauen, sodass heute noch deren Ursprung gekennzeichnet ist. Das belgische Werk ist übrigens der Ursprung der heutigen Audi-Fabrikation in Brüssel.

    Auch Modelle des 356er-Nachfolgers, des legendären Porsche 911, liefen bei Karmann vom Band. Allerdings nicht im Stammwerk Osnabrück, sondern im 1965 eröffneten Zweigwerk in Rheine. Neben den eleganten Coupés von BMW (2000 CS und Nachfolger) und dem Opel Diplomat gab es dort Fertigungsanlagen für den Ur-911er, das Coupé. Start der Produktion war 1966, gleichzeitig mit dem Sechszylinder 911 kamen dort die sehr viel günstigeren 912er-Typen mit den Vier-Zylinder-Motoren aus den Werkshallen. Bis zur Einstellung der Produktion im März 1971 gab es fast 22000 Autos dieser Baureihe aus Osnabrück.


    https://www.noz.de/lokales/osnabruec...ery&0&1&207971

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Burford, ON, Canada
    Posts
    4,237
    My understanding is that trimmed means a painted body with the interior installed. The Reutter book for the 911 includes paint codes and detailed interior codes plus key numbers. The Reutter Certificates for the 356 is similarly detailed, perhaps much more that for the 911. What is missing is any detail of the drive train. This was the Porsche factory speciality. Thus the Factory built the engines and transmissions, and then installed them in nearly completed bodies.
    Porsche Historian, contact for Kardex & CoA-type Reports
    Addicted since 1975, ESR mbr# 2200 to 2024 03
    Researching Paint codes and Engine Build numbers

  7. #7
    Senior Member StephenAcworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Chelsea, Québec
    Posts
    3,188
    Hi, I think this is an example of trimmed:

    Name:  trimmed.jpg
Views: 727
Size:  56.5 KB

    I know they're 356s, but the principle remains good...
    1966 911 Coupe - Slate Grey - 304598 - still in restoration!

    Member #1616

  8. #8
    Senior Member gulf908's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,154
    Thanks davep

    Porsche bought Reutter in 1963 so the Reutter badges disappeared from the sides of the 356C in 1964
    In Lewandowski's book there is a reference to Karmann charging extra for the trimmed and painted body shells with the inference that it was an unexpected expense that Porsche did not originally budget for.
    Reading between the lines,Porsche's original agreement with Nordhoff must have been not to pay for tooling and for the primered only shells to be delivered to Porsche's new in 1969 paint shop.
    These extra costs enforced by VW and Karmann at near production time were the reason the 914-6 sold in the USA for US$6000 instead of US$4000
    I was aware of the request by Lodz for the tooling share cost but not the Karmann demand
    Hence my asking about the prior arrangements with Karmann for the 911/912 and 356 body shells
    Porsche should have bank financed the project and gone it alone with the 914-6 instead of getting into the VW viper pit at a time of turmoil at VW

    thanks
    Dennis
    1970 914-6 - materialised from the 'Lotto' garage into reality
    1971 2.2 911 S - now back in the UK - sob!
    1975 Carrera Targa (ROW) - missed.
    One of us is fast becoming a valuable antique.
    S Registry member 536
    Australian TYP 901 Register Member 44

  9. #9
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    California High Desert
    Posts
    14,303

    Karmann-built 911s . . .

    . . . another threade --- w/ details, pics + a poll . . .
    http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...hlight=karmann




    ........................
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by LongRanger; 10-22-2019 at 01:39 AM.

    .........

    We Can Be Heroes

  10. #10
    Senior Member gulf908's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,154
    LR - can't get the thread
    Dennis
    1970 914-6 - materialised from the 'Lotto' garage into reality
    1971 2.2 911 S - now back in the UK - sob!
    1975 Carrera Targa (ROW) - missed.
    One of us is fast becoming a valuable antique.
    S Registry member 536
    Australian TYP 901 Register Member 44

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Message Board Disclaimer and Terms of Use
This is a public forum. Messages posted here can be viewed by the public. The Early 911S Registry is not responsible for messages posted in its online forums, and any message will express the views of the author and not the Early 911S Registry. Use of online forums shall constitute the agreement of the user not to post anything of religious or political content, false and defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise to violate the law and the further agreement of the user to be solely responsible for and hold the Early 911S Registry harmless in the event of any claim based on their message. Any viewer who finds a message objectionable should contact us immediately by email. The Early 911S Registry has the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.