Backdated 81SC with 72T front clip on BAT now....and it's titled as a 72

[skinnerd]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/ba...orsche-911-14/

What are your thoughts?
81SC chassis with a front clip from 72 and all it's VIN stampings and the VIN plate from the 72 now
resides on the A pillar of the 81chassis?
And it's titled as a 72.

Doesn't seem right to me.
Maybe I'm missing something.
School me please.

btw It's very beautiful car, looks like it's been in the Esses, but there was no mention
in that article that this was not totally a 72 from bumper to bumper.
I'm only reading the article in the pages the seller has attached to the BAT ad.

[tcsracing1]

It is a very tidy build. Nice 72' backdate features. But they should have kept it titled as 1981.
What they did not kosher in most states.
Accumoto build really nice cars. Excellent detail.
Not sure why they would do this unless the 1981 donor had no title or the 72 tub was too far gone?


But either way, the car looks great like a really nice backdate hot rod.

[Arne]

Here in Oregon, if the DMV knew that the car was pieced together from two (or more) chassis, the resulting title would probably carry a 'reconstructed' brand. If the 3 legal VIN locations did not match, it would get a new state-assigned VIN. But in a case like this when all 3 VINs are consistent, it probably would not receive a new VIN. And since all 3 VINs match and identify as a 1972 911T, that's what it would be titled as, even though 75% of the car might be a 1981 911SC.

But if DMV doesn't know the history, all they see is the 3 matching VINs. No question, then. It's legally a 1972 911T.

My guess is a '72 succumbing to terminal rust, not accident. So it had a clean title and no history. The '81 was probably totaled after a hard hit in the nose.

I suppose legally it's a bit of a gray area. I've seen worse. At least the seller is being up front about it. He could have quietly ignored it and few would ever know.

[skinnerd]

Surprised...maybe shocked....that no-one on this website has a problem with this.
Guess I can find all the "totaled" pre 73 911's I can.....and graft the nose onto a later model 911 and still call it a 71 or 73 or 69 911.
Not cool and not happening in my mind.

[Longballa]

Doug, I think it's a big problem. No way should it be titled as a 72.

[EuroWerkz1]

Doug, I think it's a big problem. No way should it be titled as a 72.

Hey All, it's my car. I'm fully disclosing everything I know about the car. I do appreciate the commentary and respect the varying opinions. More than willing to chat with folks on the subject.

A little context: I bought the car in 2015 (from an R Gruppe member) built and at that point it was already titled as a 72T. Candidly, whether it was a 72T or an 81SC I would have bought the car either way. Unfortunately the person that did the initial body work is deceased (RIP) and the owner I bought it from shared what details he knew however it's not known if the two cars were wrecked, rusted, or...?

In any event, I looked at it as it's better to have one 911 survive than none. Over the past 4 years I've owned the car it was good enough to put tens of thousands of dollars into which has resulted in me getting it to where it is today. If you've been to R Gruppe West Coast Treffen SPD in 18 and 19 I was there with the car. By spring I'll be wrapping up a 67 SWB build that isn't back dated...so I guess I'll be on the right side of the tracks again. Oh wait, there certainly will be those that dislike that my next car is not as it left the factory!

All the best,
Jason

[911MRP]

Here in Oregon, if the DMV knew that the car was pieced together from two (or more) chassis, the resulting title would probably carry a 'reconstructed' brand. If the 3 legal VIN locations did not match, it would get a new state-assigned VIN. But in a case like this when all 3 VINs are consistent, it probably would not receive a new VIN. And since all 3 VINs match and identify as a 1972 911T, that's what it would be titled as, even though 75% of the car might be a 1981 911SC.

But if DMV doesn't know the history, all they see is the 3 matching VINs. No question, then. It's legally a 1972 911T.

My guess is a '72 succumbing to terminal rust, not accident. So it had a clean title and no history. The '81 was probably totaled after a hard hit in the nose.

I suppose legally it's a bit of a gray area. I've seen worse. At least the seller is being up front about it. He could have quietly ignored it and few would ever know.

I am not from the USA so dont understand what is and is not legal and what the DMV role is in controlling the integrity of original factory
Vehicle markings and swapping them etc such as vin dentifiers

Not knocking car or seller as others have said being upfront ust curious in USA can people just do what they like with identifiers and so forth?

I'm not in market for car like this so my question is general not specific to this car but I guess the situation theoretically becomes an issue down the line of làter owners aren't as upfront or maybe the information is lost.

Rules vary by country so also what might implications be if subsequently offered for sale xported to one where such matters are a breach?

Guy who did the work is dead but want about those who knowingly sell a car on a situation like this -- not the forum approval or otherwise ...but legally?

Steve

[Arne]

I am not from the USA so dont understand what is and is not legal and what the DMV role is in controlling the integrity of original factory
Vehicle markings and swapping them etc such as vin dentifiers

Not knocking car or seller as others have said being upfront ust curious in USA can people just do what they like with identifiers and so forth?

I'm not in market for car like this so my question is general not specific to this car but I guess the situation theoretically becomes an issue down the line of làter owners aren't as upfront or maybe the information is lost.

Rules vary by country so also what might implications be if subsequently offered for sale xported to one where such matters are a breach?

Guy who did the work is dead but want about those who knowingly sell a car on a situation like this -- not the forum approval or otherwise ...but legally?

Steve

Generally speaking, it is not legal in the USA to move VIN from one chassis to another without disclosing this to the registering agency of the state. Depending on the state and the extent of the VIN swap, at the very least the car's title would likely be 'branded' as 'salvage' or 'reconstructed'. It may also receive a new, state-assigned VIN rather than re-use the swapped VIN.

However, it is dependent on the person/shop doing the work to notify the DMV. And even if the title received a 'reconstructed' brand, those are easy to purge with some creative transfers through some states that don't issue titles for cars older than a certain age.

So at some point, cars like this can lose the memory of what has been done, and they 'become' whatever they are titled as - in this case a 1972 911T.

Again, kudos to Jason for being totally up front about the car's provenance. I doubt many people would have the knowledge to figure it out if he had decided to not disclose this.

Interesting thought here - I wonder how many 'early' cars that have the wrong rear slam panel might be re-VIN'd later cars?

[gled49]

I’m use to the latest VIN takes precedence, so back dating for emission elimination can’t be used.

[72targa]

VIN Reference 9112101259