Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 43

Thread: 904-025, borneo green, S.M.A.R.T 1964

  1. #11
    Moderator Chuck Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Reseda, CA.
    Posts
    12,418

    Lightbulb

    This quick scan out of my 'PORSCHE 904 The Truth and the Rumours'
    By Olczyk & Morris - '2003
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Chuck Miller
    Creative Advisor/Message Board Moderator - Early 911S Registry #109
    R Gruppe #88

    TYP901 #62
    '73S cpe #1099 - Matched # 2.7/9.5 RS spec rebuild
    '67 Malibu 327 spt cpe - Period 350 Rebuild

    ’98 Chevy S-10 – Utility
    ’15 GTI – Commuter

  2. #12
    Haul can you explain / tell (from the German spoken man) how this garagefind rhymes w/ the info from Chuck? It seems that lots of parts went into the garage but that the original engine, transmission and tubular frame (w/ Vin) did not?

    Richard
    searching for engine (case) 903742

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    West Sussex and The Scottish Borders
    Posts
    298
    I do not want to preempt what Haul has to say, but - for obvious reasons - this car was variously, and sometimes simultaneously, referred to as 025 and 088. It can be difficult to follow. Maybe we should speak of 025/025 and 025/088?

  4. #14
    Wolter Gratama (second owner) bought 025 in the early 70s and drove it around. It was him hooked me up to 65-911s. He was an independent Porsche dealer in Haarlem, the Netherlands. He is still alive and active w/ Porsche's and could fill in details about the time he owned it. Is that then 025/088?
    Last edited by preS; 12-06-2019 at 10:46 AM.
    searching for engine (case) 903742

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    West Sussex and The Scottish Borders
    Posts
    298
    That would be my assumption, yes

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Miller View Post
    This quick scan out of my 'PORSCHE 904 The Truth and the Rumours'
    By Olczyk & Morris - '2003
    Chuck what does your book show for 088?

    Thanks

    RIchard
    searching for engine (case) 903742

  7. #17
    Moderator Chuck Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Reseda, CA.
    Posts
    12,418
    Just trying to add to the information on this thread from one of my many reference books...

    First:
    The author's disclaimer...

    Then:
    904-088

    Not sure if this helps, or makes it more confusing...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Chuck Miller
    Creative Advisor/Message Board Moderator - Early 911S Registry #109
    R Gruppe #88

    TYP901 #62
    '73S cpe #1099 - Matched # 2.7/9.5 RS spec rebuild
    '67 Malibu 327 spt cpe - Period 350 Rebuild

    ’98 Chevy S-10 – Utility
    ’15 GTI – Commuter

  8. #18
    Senior Member haul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    bavaria
    Posts
    2,327
    Quote Originally Posted by preS View Post
    Wolter Gratama (second owner) bought 025 in the early 70s and drove it around. It was him hooked me up to 65-911s. He was an independent Porsche dealer in Haarlem, the Netherlands. He is still alive and active w/ Porsche's and could fill in details about the time he owned it. Is that then 025/088?
    Richard, yes, please go ahead and ask him about the car and engine and gearbox. Whatever is interesting, please ...and yes:
    this car had been 904-025-1 aka 904-088

    br
    haul
    59 750 pre unit triton
    63 650 gray silver bikinitub triumph thunderbird
    70 650 astralred silver triumph bonneville
    65 912 slate gray "erwin"
    73 914 ravennagreen "ferdl"
    erwin_loves_polo

  9. #19
    Senior Member haul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    bavaria
    Posts
    2,327
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Miller View Post
    Just trying to add to the information on this thread from one of my many reference books...

    First:
    The author's disclaimer...

    Then:
    904-088

    Not sure if this helps, or makes it more confusing...

    yes, this is the official 904-088 fraud story. These circles do lead to the major fraud stories we already had threads here at the ESR: "free" production numbers had been used to create "official cars".
    http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...tzerland/page6 ff

    The german and swiss state attourneys are investing these "deals" with the help of UK and US and Japan investigators.

    But maybe "PORSCHE 904 - The Truth and the Rumours" from 2003 seems not to have all informations gathered?
    Race entries, documents and results had been available already earlier.
    They are for sure listed in the book, aren't they?

    Just to make sure:
    both cars are existing - both cars are the real deal -
    904-025-1 aka 904-088 has the compromised story due to "rumours" about the parts history. Illegitimate provenance.
    904-025 just had been the donor car
    Last edited by haul; 12-06-2019 at 02:03 PM.
    59 750 pre unit triton
    63 650 gray silver bikinitub triumph thunderbird
    70 650 astralred silver triumph bonneville
    65 912 slate gray "erwin"
    73 914 ravennagreen "ferdl"
    erwin_loves_polo

  10. #20
    Senior Member haul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    bavaria
    Posts
    2,327
    Below please do find the letter of Sir Stirling Moss from 25.04.1980 to Armin Hardy.
    Armin Hardy had been executive employee at the above mentioned Porsche dealer Löhr & Becker in Koblenz.
    “Actually, I had two 904 Porsches, the first one was destroyed by one of my drivers and the second one raced.”

    But to come back to the story: as far as I have been informed, the chassis exchange took place the way written before.

    The major reason had been customs and import tax duties, as for the import of a "new" car, new down payments would have been immediately necessary - see the double import and different declaration for 13327 http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-63-pics/page2 #11 -

    The tax declaration papers for the export from UK and import via France/Belgium to Germany sure listed 904-025. We can assume, that this car had to be brought back with "correct" papers clearing the car for import to UK, exempted for tax as a repaired car.

    If the paper would have listed 904-088, new papers would have been filed, new duties paid.

    In order to prevent this, the car was “made to be 904-025”.

    It is said, that the 904 production records at the factory do show the change, as do show the official race entries two different chassis for the S.M.A.R.T cars, either for 904-025 and 904-088.

    Below is the logbook for now 904-025-1 aka 904-088, which had been at the Silverstone auctions, "The Porsche Sale 2016".
    https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/...00&pn=1&pp=100

    per 01.11.1964 it is noted engine #99073, which 904-025-1 now still has.
    the color is "metallic silver blue", the livery 904-025-1 now still has (again?)

    The logbook is now with the owner of 904-025!

    The more interesting question is:
    Where is the original engine for 904-025?
    # 99024 -
    has anyone real and valueable informations about its where abouts?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by haul; 03-29-2022 at 08:45 AM.
    59 750 pre unit triton
    63 650 gray silver bikinitub triumph thunderbird
    70 650 astralred silver triumph bonneville
    65 912 slate gray "erwin"
    73 914 ravennagreen "ferdl"
    erwin_loves_polo

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Message Board Disclaimer and Terms of Use
This is a public forum. Messages posted here can be viewed by the public. The Early 911S Registry is not responsible for messages posted in its online forums, and any message will express the views of the author and not the Early 911S Registry. Use of online forums shall constitute the agreement of the user not to post anything of religious or political content, false and defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise to violate the law and the further agreement of the user to be solely responsible for and hold the Early 911S Registry harmless in the event of any claim based on their message. Any viewer who finds a message objectionable should contact us immediately by email. The Early 911S Registry has the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.