Etiquette question - broken during shipping

[mscott842]

I'm sure Dirk's a good guy and thus I did not want to identify the seller so that the issue of "etiquette" would remain unburdened by personal feelings. It's is not my intent to litigate this issue publicly on the Registry.

That said, not sure what Dirk means about buyer "asking for lower and even lower price." I made an offer, he agreed, I paid by Paypal Friends. Bad move #1. When I went to my local Post Office to complain about damage, they said I needed to show it to them on the day I picked it up, which I did not. Bad move #2. I should have sked that package be insured for value of sale. I did not. Bad move #3. So i bear some blame and willing to take a financial hit as a result - partial refund, etc. Not aware that Dirk had found a replacement lens. if there is another lens to match the one that was broken, I'll take it and pay reasonable cost.

This thread has opened my eyes to a number of issues that buyers and sellers should clarify before a deal is done. Cheers to all.

[uai]

And while we‘re at it.
I shipped december 2018 a parcel to the us which came back last week...
The recipient wasn‘t there when they tried to deliver. It was nearly one year until it came back. Fortunately the buyer forgot about the parcel and was very happy when I contacted him and told him that his stuff was back with me. Let‘s see how the second attempt goes...

[911MRP]

Uli...has the value of contents appreciated or depreciated in the meantime

[dirk07]

First of all, I m a private seller. My family owns some old Porsches for third generation. I don't sell cars, sometimes I buy one. I don't restore to sell them or buy cars to sell the parts. And I don't restore parts to sell those parts.
So for a profesional seller, PayPal, refund, tax and so on is a part of their business. And all what professional seller said is correct for their daily business.

I don't accept normal PayPal due to more than one reason. Several buyers have tried to cheat me over the last years. Most likely 2-3 times a year this happened. #1Stones instead of the sold item returned.Paypal refunded cause there was a tracking number that a box was delivered to my address. Yes, full of stones. #2 Another guy asked me when the best time to return the bought item was and I replied not to send it back around X-MAs to first week of January. Well, he send out on 23.12, was stored in the post office for 7 days and returned to the buyer, before I returned from skiing. paypal refunded him, I had to claim to get my items.#3 Sold seat to the US, buyer payed with PAypal after I told him that I will send out with DHL. FEDEX was to expensive for him. 10 times the shipping cost of DHL. DHL delivered within a week. Tracking says so, insurance was to full value. He told me that the colour does not match with his interior. It was black!! and he would like to been refunded and first he would like to have the cost of the shipping cost back to me refunded before he will send out to me. I said I will refund him after the seats have arrived, but he has to pay for both ways shipping cost, because the item is like described and he just don't like it. He opened a case that the seas had never been delivered. Ok fine, I send the tracking of DHL to PayPal.de which accept it and closed to case, the buyer opened another case that DHL is not accepted by PayPal.com. Only FEDEX or USPS. He got refunded by PayPal.com and had the seats. I had to claim and I won the case!

So for all of you that would like to have a item that I offer for x00 EURO. Don't ask me if I accept Paypal x00EURO included shipping CONUS. I will have to use FEDEX; which is not very common here and there only few shops and shipping will expensiver than the value of the item.

Michael, really sorry. Was not my fault and not yours. DHL only accepts if the buyer claims the damage, not the seller.
John, yes the one item was poorly boxed from the GB restorer. When I saw the pictures I agreed to refund. But the shoebox he used was nearly as good as your envelope in which the parts returned ;-)
I'm using a local company to box items that got overseas. 3 got damaged,1 lost, over 240 arrived well during the last 2 years.

[StephenAcworth]

Anytime I sell anything either thru' here or any other forum, I try to take photos (with my phone) of all stages of packing and then send them to the purchaser so they can see how it is packed and how it left me... last photo taken either at the post office or at the UPS/FEDEX depot. SO far, maybe through luck, but I didn't have any damages or claims... I've had some sketchy people trying to claim that they never received the package, but that's a different issue.
I always try to pack in such a manner that it would be very difficult for things to get broken. And with accurate customs declarations and value declarations, there should be no need for anything to be opened.
As a seller, I believe it is incumbent on me to try to mitigate the bad handling practices of most shippers...
And always insure the item for what it is worth - if the buyer doesn't want to do that, then get it in writing that they refuse...
Just my thoughts...

[DesmoSD]

So. I´m the seller.
It s an international deal. So forget all, what you know about buying within the US.



In my case the buyer asked for lower, lower and even lower price, than for included shipping.
Both lenses had been packed each in a box and both boxes in another box. The shipping was tracked and insured.I did some pictures of the lense in the boxes and the boxes in the box and send it to the seller.
The lenses arrived both in one box. The customers declaration inside was missing. So someone opened the box for customers declaration and did all the tax thing. I called DHL, had been to the DHL office also and they said that the buyer has to claim it damaged and they have to check the box at the local post office of the buyer.
The buyer never answered me the question if he claimed it damaged or not. Then he wanted me to look for another lense here, I found one, but he bought already a NOS one and he like to been refunded for the NOS one or half, then he would like to send the good and the NOS one back and wanted a full refund, because he decided to use REPROs.

Fullstop- I´ll shut up.

Yup, I knew it. This is the price you pay for skimping out shipping and having to deal with international shipping. If domestic shipping wasn't already a nightmare, international shipping can be an even bigger gamble once customs gets their paws on it. Now the finger pointing occurs.

Customs doesn't care what's in the box and nor do they care to put it back in the same way it was packed... this has always been the major problem.

[fourteenten]

I have stopped using DHL for overseas (US, Oz etc) parcel delivery. Once it took 5 weeks to deliver, it stayed 3 weeks in Germany before it went out overseas. Upon arrival box was torn, item damaged and pauid for the repair costs. Insured to 500 euro but got only the shipping costs plus the nominal value based on weight back. Not on declared value!!! No point to argue with them over it. I am sure we are try our best but once it is delivered to the shipper not much we can do. Luckily there are other shippers, may be not as cheap but with better (after) service.

Cees

[jaudette3]

I’ve researched this before since I ship breakable items worldwide. I went back and I did a little more after this thread popped up and I’m afraid JP is right. The item is the seller’s responsibility until it’s in the buyer’s hands. That seems counterintuitive and unfair to me but it appears to be the case.

So it’s incumbent on the seller to pack carefully. As many here who have received shipments from me know, I always double box and use copious padding. In 10+ years I’ve only had two cases of breakage and one looked suspiciously like the buyer had broken a lenses while trying to install a headlight. Of course I just sent him another one.

JohnA

[savagejayj]

This hasn't happened to me, but after reading all the post on this I though of this scenario. It seems to me that with buying and selling online there could be finger pointing because a seller could package something well but a third party could open it and of course not repackage it as before and a buyer would/could receive a damage item and then blame the seller for, one, selling a damaged item and shipping it damage or, two, blaming the seller on poor packaging causing the item to be damage, when in fact it was customs that was the culprit on international buying/selling, this can also happen domestically, if you ship USPS using media mail(cheapest way) they may open the packaging to check if the item qualifies for media mail (books, dvd, cds, etc.) and thus damage the item or not reseal it as it was before thus causing it to be damaged. I think most buyers (myself included) want to pay the least amount possible on shipping. I also think that a refund should be full not partial after the seller receives the damaged item back, as in the case of the original poster it's not like the seller has another NOS H1 handy, but what happens if the seller states that the buyer has to pay return shipping and in that process the other H1 lens breaks so now both lenses are now broken, who's responsible now since both parties are now shippers?

[LiveFromNY]

This hasn't happened to me, but after reading all the post on this I though of this scenario. It seems to me that with buying and selling online there could be finger pointing because a seller could package something well but a third party could open it and of course not repackage it as before and a buyer would/could receive a damage item and then blame the seller for, one, selling a damaged item and shipping it damage or, two, blaming the seller on poor packaging causing the item to be damage, when in fact it was customs that was the culprit on international buying/selling, this can also happen domestically, if you ship USPS using media mail(cheapest way) they may open the packaging to check if the item qualifies for media mail (books, dvd, cds, etc.) and thus damage the item or not reseal it as it was before thus causing it to be damaged. I think most buyers (myself included) want to pay the least amount possible on shipping. I also think that a refund should be full not partial after the seller receives the damaged item back, as in the case of the original poster it's not like the seller has another NOS H1 handy, but what happens if the seller states that the buyer has to pay return shipping and in that process the other H1 lens breaks so now both lenses are now broken, who's responsible now since both parties are now shippers?

Seller is responsible. Again, Paypal, Amex, Visa and MC have already made this decision. They're not big into grey areas or fairness debates. It is what it is.

BTW, I'm not trying to harass sellers unnecessarily. Nor am I wildly or unreasonably pro-buyer. But I am, and I would guess by far, the person on this site shipping the most packages. I'm just trying to share the reality of the shipping liability world as it has already been established.