Extreme wind noise -- blame the new seals (Sierra Madre), or the installer?

[bford]

Hi everyone,
Had my 73.5 Targa stripped to bare metal and repainted a few months ago. Paint looks spectacular. That's the good. Here's the bad part.

I of course wanted to go with all new seals. The first shop I worked with (who ultimately passed on the project -- too busy) recommended I go with Sierra Madre seals and rubber, which I did (https://sierramadrecollection.com/Se...73-p31661.html).

The shop that did the disassembly, metal work, paint, and reassembly had terrible problems with the Sierra Madre seals, particularly the windshield and rear window seals, which he complained were way too hard, thick, and impliable. He could not get them to go onto the glass and had to go with a different set. He told me the last car he did (a 71 coupe, I believe) had the same problem. The owner of that car purchased Sierra Madre seals for him to install, and they were impossible to get on. They wound up going with Stoddard seals instead.

Apart from the window seals, he used all the Sierra Madre parts I provided. The car looks beautiful, drives wonderfully, but frankly it's hard to enjoy. The area between the vent window and seals have little gaps. The targa top only goes on with extreme effort and targa front seal always wants to come unglued on the edges, so getting everything seated takes some doing.

And the noise...Holy crud. I've owned this car for 6 years. I know what normal Targa wind noise sounds like. This is a different ballpark. We're talking so much wind noise that it's difficult to hear the engine! It's almost quieter with the top off.

I've spoken with the shop about it and they want to make it right, but insist that we're going to need to go with different seals -- vent windows, targa front / rear bar, perhaps different targa top side seals. They suggest Stoddard.

What do you think? Can any of you share similar anecdotes? Are these known issues with Sierra Madre seals? Is my installer off his rocker? I'm looking for some collective group wisdom here. If you'd rather not share publicly, PM is fine and helpful. Sierra Madre were very nice to work with. Great customer service, etc. I just need to know if it's the product or installer that's to blame.

Thanks as always.

[Dr_Danger]

Have a read through the door seals thread. I've been battling extreme wind noise post new seals as well http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...939-Door-Seals
As you well know Targas are noisy but most of the noise comes from the door corner even with Targa roof, no doubt the front roof seal contributes as well. A friend used SM seals in the past and he did have to soak them in hot water for a long while prior to installing, he then used Wurth rubber care stick on them for about a month every other day until they finally softened and settled down.

[Orange71S]

The door seals are really easy to install wrong/backwards. If there is a gap between the vent window and the frame, I would bet that they were installed incorrectly.
The collapsible portion of the seal should face towards the door, which creates the seal.
Hope this helps and enjoy your fresh 911!
Jay

[Jules Dielen]

did they install the spacer piece under the door seal in the area where the door top and the vent window meet? I've never had any issues with SM parts, and their customer service has been stellar. They also just buy from the same manufacturers all the other guys (and Porsche themselves) do.

Many moons ago we ended up with a batch of window seals that had more plastic than rubber. Those were junk as they were hard and impossible to use. When something actually did fit, it dried out and started cracking within months. Have not seen any of that recently - this is in the 'Tweeks' days (and yes, they were the cheapest!), 20 years ago, there was no Sierra Madre yet.

[Jim Morris]

Brad, if you do a search (as suggested above) on door seals you will find much information that will help you quiet the door seals. As for the targa top seals (front, rear, and sides) the installer really has to know what he/she is doing. Has your shop ever done a targa before? Have the seals been screwed where they are supposed to be? Did you use factory seals for these parts? Do the targa top front and ear edges (lips) seal upon the gaskets? Again, there are extensive discussions about top fitting in various places. The factory even has a video of targa top fitting and adjustment. Dogged searching will reveal this information. Your installers should spend some time reading and watching this material to develop some competence at their craft.

[bob joyce]

one way to somewhat eliminate installer error.... take a dollar bill ; one end hold with thumb and index finger, place the other end of dollar in the car and close the door. then tug/pull the dollar bill to withdraw it from the car.... all around the door opening you should have good resistance/friction. the area against the windshield and at top of door glass adjacent vent window, the pull should be stiffer.

[e72phil]

Hi Brad,

the rubbers available from Porsche for early Targas never fitted right and I beleive were actually G series rubber and too "fat" especially the ones across the top of the windscreen and the targa hoop. Also the rubbers on the roof section that seal the side windows are virtually NOS.

However, if you visit Cars Inc (Targa Dan) at https://www.carsincnj.com/, you can source correctly fitting rubbers for your targa that really work and seal well. Dan also rebuilds Targa tops and I have had 2 done over the years , both for 1972 911 targas.

He knows Targas well and should be able to solve your issues.

[Chuck Miller]

Good information... And GREAT seeing your post Phil

[mfitton]

Hi Brad,

the rubbers available from Porsche for early Targas never fitted right and I beleive were actually G series rubber and too "fat" especially the ones across the top of the windscreen and the targa hoop. Also the rubbers on the roof section that seal the side windows are virtually NOS.

However, if you visit Cars Inc (Targa Dan) at https://www.carsincnj.com/, you can source correctly fitting rubbers for your targa that really work and seal well. Dan also rebuilds Targa tops and I have had 2 done over the years , both for 1972 911 targas.

He knows Targas well and should be able to solve your issues.

++1 for Carsinc. and Dan Petchel

[RSTarga]

Dan is the only one who makes the proper front Targa to windshield frame seal, all the others should be Porsche original seals.
There is still quite a bit of adjustment required for the Targa side seals and adjustment of window to Targa roof necessary.
Dan has a good instruction sheet on this as well as the factory bulletin.
Are the front clips on your Targa roof engaging properly? Your top might need to be rebuilt too, they lose tension, again, contact Dan.