Restoration Economics Advice Needed (long)

[bobmagyar]

Hi Guys,

I have reached a point in my restoration were I need an economic reality check.

I started restoring my original 1970 911S Targa with the intension of doing everything as well as possible. The thinking was a car of this vintage deserved it as well as would be worth the majority of the money that I would put into it. Time being worth $0.05/hour of course.

You probably know what has happened…. Costs are much higher then I expected.

I am at the point were I am starting to do the body and paint and I am thinking that perhaps It would be time to reconsider some of my plans for this.

So what I hope you guys could provide me with is a realistic value for what my car would be worth after I am finished.

This is how the car would be when done:

Kardex matching Chassis and engine.
Original Recaro Sport Seats Refinished by Auto’s
New Carpet By Auto’s
Completely Rebuilt Engine with bills totaling over $10000.
SSI’s
Original MFI recalibrated by Supertec and throttle bodies rebuilt.
911 Transmission rebuild with new sliders, syncros, bearings and seals. $1500
Rebuilt suspension with new bushings and Koni’s
New body seals
All Chome and Aluminum Trim is Perfect
All fasteners new or replated.
All cadmium parts replated.
All new OEM signal and headlight lenses.
H1 lights.
All new hard and flexible brake lines.
Alloy calipers rebuilt with stainless pistons.
Rear calipers replated and rebuilt.
Fuel system lines replaced and tank sealed and outside coated.
All oil lines replaced
Refinished Deep 6’s with anodized finish.
Euro model with metric gauges, unique lenses.
New Targa Glass and windshield.

My dilemma is that the car is guards red. I am going to be replacing some of the panels that were not correct or rust free. I need to decide what colour to do paint the car. Due to a windstorm 2 years ago some of the paint got scratched by some UFO and was redone by the best shop in my city. It would be easy for me to repaint the new panels guards red and the car would be very fine looking with beautiful paint. Or I have to strip the car and redo every thing Signal Orange at a much greater expense. The final value of the car will have a greatly influence my decision which way to proceed. The paint is Glasurit.

If you any of you could help me with the value of the car I can choose the most sensible direction and sleep better at night.

My intension is not to profit from the car but I may need to sell in 2 years time to finance going back to school, hence my need to be sensible.

Thanks all.

Bob

[tfmcmahon]

I think you have answered your own question in your last phrase.With all the valuable things you have done so far,I would stop where you are and don`t paint it.Drive it for two years and have fun.The color you paint it, although a great one,may not be what the next owner wants and might be more interested in the original color or a repaint becomes his option.Guessing the market values in two years is just that.Current values for Targas might be mid 20`s to 30`s in the condition you describe,but you will get many views on that.Have fun and good luck in school. TFM

[Cornpanzer]

A lot of it depends on your personality. Will you be satisfied with the red or will it be a irritation every time you drive the car? Lets face it, restoring an early S is not something done with logic and practicality foremost in ones mind in teh first place!

[Porsche Rescue]

Color change cars are almost always worth less than original color cars.
The difference will not likely be the cost of a paint job however.

[pwd72s]

Exactly! Those who look at these cars as an investment will end up disappointed. Even IF one makes money, there are higher returns with less effort elsewhere. Ahhh, but even a brief solo day run with only my bride at my side? Priceless! If it were numbers only, I'd probably be ringing a guy in Florida, saying he could add my car to his toys collection.

[Eade Hopkinson]

With everything you are doing, keep it the ORIGINAL color. If you do it right, it will always be worth more. As Paul said, enjoy the car and forget the money, or you will never sleep well at night if you start chasing lost dollars. Keep lots of pictures if you strip to bare metal, that will also enhance the value of the money you put into the body and paint. My guess is $32,000-35,000 price range if done right, especially if orange is the original color.
This is my 70E with 63,000 miles, all original paint except left front fender and door, 100% original interior and mechanicals, and I have turned down $23,000 for it, and your S will be worth than this is for sure. Keep the faith

[tabs52]

Keep your car orginal....orginal brings money....modification brings less money...this is not only true in Automobiles but every collecting endevor...just watch the Antiques Road Show...and U to will see....

[silverc4s]

Bob,
I feel your pain. My 70 S Coupe was restored by me, not for profit, but to be the new 1970 S that I wanted in 1970, but could not afford.
I have kept it as original as possible, BUT I changed the color to Silver Metallic, as 1. It needed a re-paint badly and 2. I really wanted a Silver car not an Albert Blue one.

In the end, the value vs. color will always be in the same order:
original color top $$$,
correct for the car & year, but a color change &&,
and a Porsche 911 color, but from the WRONG year $.
Of course a Ford, Chevy, Mercedes, or Cadillac color will debase the value to most folks, so I wouldn't go there unless money really means NOTHING to you.

Quality of the paint work is of paramount importance as well, of course, painting a 911 can cost anywhere from $2500 to over $10000, most of which is unrecoverable money unless cardex originality is maintained.

As time goes by, and fewer and fewer Early S's are available, these issues will be overshadowed by overall condition and provenance in each case, so do what you want to do. If you are at all unsure, I would NOT paint it until I was sure what my expectations were.

Good luck, you have a great car there, enjoy it, above all...

[bobmagyar]

Thanks Gentlemen for your replies.

I needed to build some confidence that the value of the car would be in the range that Eade has mentioned. If the car was in +/-20K range I would have to really reconsider were I was going with this.

I expect that the differential between Guards Red and Signal Orange is 5K.

After I have the underbelly stripped and the battery boxes replaced I will see where I am and make the decision from there.

I am glad that I spent the money on the engine first. I don't think any short cuts should be taken there. Any car can have shiny original colour paint but only early S's have the engine we love.

Best Regards,

Bob

[silverc4s]

Bob,
Here are some relevant numbers for you..Keith Martin's Sport Car Market magazine tracks auction prices worldwide for all collector cars, and some others as well. here's what they are currently saying about the 2.2 Liter S's:

911S Coupe 2.2, 69-71, 1430 made, $16K-$24K, Grade B, 5% Appr.
911S Targa 2.2, 69-71, 2131 made, $16K - $24K, Grade A, 14% Appr.
(Deduct 15% for 2.0l 1969 cars)

A car painted a non original color will suffer in these ratings, as above.

YMMV;