Pelican = Big Brother

[Zeke]

Now and then a little extra dicussion crops up on the parts4sale BBS over there, too. It is usually met with some pretty harsh criticism from members beyond the moderators and held to a minimum. So that one is essentially self policed. One has to wonder why people feel the need to poison the well on a car for sale or just blast out thier unwanted and unneeded opinion. Yes, outward fraud needs some attention, but all aspects of 30+ year old cars is so subjective anyway.........

I've come to believe that "good condition" means a core or barely useable. Caveat emptor.

[CurtEgerer]

<i>"One has to wonder why people feel the need to poison the well on a car for sale or just blast out thier unwanted and unneeded opinion"</i>

Because they can. In relative anonymity. And with little, if any, consequence. That's the beauty of the internet!

[Paul Schooley]

Dang....I forgot about the ol Tabster. Gotta wonder how the chappy is doin after all this time. I miss his outrageous misguided comments...not. LMAO!

[Noah]

Sorry for dragging this thread up from the deep, but someone sent me a link to it and I felt the need to comment. I didn't see it when it was originally posted.

One specific example. You are not allowed to discuss the pluses or minuses of particular cars for sale on Ebay or for sale on Pelican.
don

This is not true.

Discussion of Porsches for sale on Pelican, in newspaper classifieds, Craigslist, Ebay, wherever, is fully allowed, as Jack pointed out. It's just not allowed in the Porsches for sale forum.

As that forum saw increased traffic, it became a common occurence for posts to be attacked by people for an array of offenses, real and imagined. Some people didn't like the price, and decided they'd bluntly tell the owner. Some didn't like the pictures, or the description, or the seats, or the color, or the rims, or whatever -- and of course, no discontent goes unposted (as Don proved with this thread). None of these people were actually interested in buying a Porsche, but they did enjoy creating conflict and playing to the crowd. If the forum wasn't made more hospitable, it was going to die a slow (and well-deserved) death.

Wayne asked me to moderate the forum, and after palliative measures proved ineffective, I realized that the only way to reform the atmosphere there was to simply prohibit commentary on the cars posted for sale -- paint a clear, bright line down the road. I don't enjoy deleting posts, closing threads, and asking grown men to stop acting like jerks, but it was the only way to establish a semblance of hospitality there. It was, and is, an entirely thankless task. But I think at this point, it's worked. I got rid of the peanut gallery, the place has been free of incidents for a long time, and has grown substantially over the past year.

If anyone's curious about the rules governing the forum, please read the sticky I posted at the top. I hope this clears things up. Rant off.

edited for typos.

[dhopkins]

Noah,
I understand what you are saying. And it is unpleasant to be the target of negative comments. However, disagreement is more informative and allows more truth to come out. Socrates invented something called the Socratic Method. He believed that movement toward the truth was more likely when debate exposed the weaknesses of any one point of view. Often cars for sale are not what the seller claims they are and/or the seller has a bad reputation. Those new to P-cars can get hurt.
If we can't put comments on the "Cars for Sale" forum how about a forum dedicated to "Comments about the Cars for Sale"?

Don

[nullh20]

I'm pretty sure that there are more threads deleted here by moderators than on Pelican
I guess things have quitened down here a bit in the last couple weeks, but for a while it seemed like a thread would disappear every day or two. I guess there are heated participants here as well

[a911s]

Yeah, it's all based on the human condition and the intelligence exhibited by such on a week to week basis. Is Mercury in retrograde this week?

[Noah]

However, disagreement is more informative and allows more truth to come out. Socrates invented something called the Socratic Method. He believed that movement toward the truth was more likely when debate exposed the weaknesses of any one point of view. Often cars for sale are not what the seller claims they are and/or the seller has a bad reputation.

But what goes on isn't "debate" -- it's antagonism. I was a political philosophy major, and we used to have absolutely lovely Socratic dialogues. You would have been proud. Regrettably, that's just not what happens on a web forum. Again, I think you need to read the sticky I posted at the top of the forum. Here's part of it:

If you think a car is being misrepresented or the seller has posted incorrect information, ask the seller your question or voice your concern to him politely.

It is perfectly fine to speak up if you think a seller has misrepresented his car or has posted incorrect information. What more do you want?

If we can't put comments on the "Cars for Sale" forum how about a forum dedicated to "Comments about the Cars for Sale"?

Sorry, it's not going to happen. If you want, start your own Porsche classified forum and encourage lots and lots of Socratic Dialogue. It won't last long.

[jaudette3]

I know Wayne pretty well and he is a first class person who works hard to do business by following Yoda's old adage: "Give, Then Take". First, he provides a wealth of data, information and knowledge to the Porsche community. And then some choose to do business with him. If this board wants to kick someone or some business around, it's chosen the wrong someone and the wrong business.

Wayne & Pelican are First Class.

John Audette

[Porsche]

I stay mostly in the Australian Regional Forum there. But my experience at Pelican has been pretty good. You do meet the occasional member who's an idiot, but you get them everywhere.