The real 73 RSR TF Winner - Porsche Factory Scam??

[72targa]

This is a link to a model site that might help with the overall understanding of this three-piece tail made up of a standard duck tail and two extensions...

http://www.react-co.jp/p04.htm

[210bhp]

George
Well I never!!! You learn the most facinating stuff on this site.
Regards from Bonnie Scotland
Mike
PS George...any real RS steering wheels for sale?

[Carl Bauer]

When I was at the museum in 2003 I took a photo of the plaque that is in front of the 917 that is painted like the 1970 LeMans winner. The plaque never states that it is in fact chassis # 917-023, the overall winner at LeMans, but leads you to think that it is. Careful wording...

[Jim Calzia]

Ah, MarkP, you open a really big can of worms. Rennman is correct, there were three (actually five) Martini Porsche RSRs at the '73 Targa Florio. 9113600588 (race #8) won and is now owned by Peter Kitchak. 9113600020 (race #9) finished third and is now on display at the Porsche Museum and often on tour as shown in MarkP's pictures of RennSport Reunion II. Porsche also brought a third RSR (9113600974) but it was wrecked during practice by Count ____ Pucci. Team Chief/Race Engineer Norbert Singer put 0974's engine into the team's training car (aka Mongrel) and entered the training car as race #107; it finished sixth. I do not know Mongrel's VIN (it is always E42 in Singer's notes), but--based on the same notes, I'm pretty sure it was built on a 1972 911S chassis. There are written rumors that Pucci wrecked another car during practice for the '73 TF, but Singer's notes make no record of that.

Now for the big mystery. Note the oil fill door on the race photo of car #9 from the Carrera RS book.
Attachment 15894
#9 is suppose to be 0020, but--that's a '72 tub! Starkey reports that 0020 was built in Nov 1973 on a '73 chassis!! Although I have not seen race photos of the right side of E42, I suspect the oil fill door is not there. If so, then the record book is screwed up! True--0588 won the '73 TF, but I'm beginning to think E42 was entered as race #9 and finished third; 0020 was entered as race #107 and finished sixth. Singer and I are writing a book on the '73 RSRs (working title: Production to Prototype: 1973 Martini Porsche RSRs and the World Championship of Makes); we talked briefly about this mystery but have yet to resolve it. Stay tuned for more details

PS FlatSix is correct. The #8 RSR stuck in the middle of MarkP's picture at RRII is the Museum car (0020), the #8 car in the foreground is Kitchak's car and the car that won the '73 Targa Florio

[MarkP]

Thanks all for the responses - fascinating world that we play & live in.

Below is another photo that I took of the museum car confirming the duck tail.

I also received a private email for someone with access to the factory records and Singer's notes confirming that #0588 was the winner in 73.

[Jim Calzia]

GeorgeK is right on! Here is an excerpt from my marquee at Coronado and Laguna Seca
Attachment 15896

In 1972, Porsche decided to enter production 911s in the FIA/CSI World Championship of Makes after the FIA and SCCA adopted new engine and fuel limitations that made the 908/3 obsolete and 917 uncompetitive. After building 500 1973 Carrera RS and applying for FIA Homologation in Group 4 (Special GT), Porsche built 56 race versions of this car (conversion order no. M491) between Oct 1972 and May 1973: prototypes were numbered R1 through R8; customer cars were called Carrera RSR. Porsche shipped two RSRs to the Brumos and Penske teams to enter in the 1973 Daytona 24 hr race; these cars were entered in FIA Group 5 (Sports-Prototype) because the homologation papers were signed but not in effect. Once homologation became effective, Porsche renewed its partnership with the Martini Racing Team and entered Group 4 RSRs in the WCM races in Europe.

The Martini Porsche RSRs won their class at Vallelunga, Le Mans 4 hr, and Dijon but ran into trouble at Monza. An Italian privateer that entered an RSR was unhappy the Martini Porsche team had done well but the privateers had not. The day before the Monza race, the Italian asked the Race Stewards to check the rear suspension of the Martini cars. Norbert Singer, Project Manager/Development Engineer of the Porsche RSR, installed new covers for the outer pick-up points on the trailing arms. The Italian argued that since the coves were not homologated, they and the car were not legal! Even though the Martini cars had used the covers at Dijon, Singer decided it was useless to argue with the Italian at an Italian race. He decided to change from Group 4 to Group 5 where he could keep the covers and add aerodynamic parts to reduce the car's tendency for oversteer at high speed. These parts consisted of winglets that extend the ducktail spoiler around and onto the rear flares. The winglets were tested at Paul Richard in Dec 1972; Singer knew they added aerodynamic drag, but improved handling by reducing lift. The car was slower on the straights but faster in the corners and lap times were less over a full lap. The winglets were cobbled together in the race trailer from aluminum sheet metal, attached to the rear flares, and the Martini cars started the race. The winglets and ducktail reminded someone on the team of the high, wide ruffled collars worn by Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots, hence the name Mary Stuart spoiler.

[210bhp]

Jim
Facinating! Couldn't you resolve this issue by simply lokking at the chassis number of the museum car? To complicate matters the 72 oil filler could have been deleted during restoration to make it look like it was #9(as per the record books) rather than 107 and obviously it has been restored with #8 to make it look like the real winner. Does all that make sense?
Regards
Mike

[Jim Calzia]

Yes, 210bhp, that would be easiest, but--I did not look at the VIN of the museum car when I was there in 1991 (in fact, you couldn't touch the cars then), and the museum was closed for reconstruction when I was there last Aug. And yes, I guess the Factory could have restored 0020 without the oil fill door and slap #8 on it to look like 0588, but--I have race photos of 0020 before the Targa Florio (Tour d'Corsa, Paul Richard test, and the Le Mans 4 hr), and it does not have an oil fill door! Bottom line is that Porsche reports the VIN of the museum car as 9113600020 in their Museum book, and all race reports that I have read record 9113600588 as the winner of the '73 Targa Florio

[letsrollbabe]

Here are some sources I used a while back on another thread regarding one of the factory Martini cars that started out as a 72S.

Carrera RS book, page 165. "Porsches fondness for remodeling and renaming racing cars is illustrated by the following example: The chassis numbering system of the RS series did not start with 911 360 0001 and 0002 but rather with the number 11. This allowed Porsche to rebuild existing 911 S race cars as Carreras--which, under racing rules, could be further modified--and call them RS 1 and 2. Number 1 was used by the Pole Sobieslav Zasada as a rally car, and Number 2, after serving as a practice vehicle, was entered as number 107 in the Targa Florio."

(I think aurthors misused the S/N's as 001 and 002, when they were really Prototypes 1 and 2.)

In Porsche Sport 73 p. 63 (by Joe Rusz) there is a picture of #107 (captioned as finishing 3rd at TF), which is clearly the red 72 and with those funky looking rear flares and silver trimmed signals as shown on pages 53-55 in the Carrera RS book. It was run as a factory car with Martini colors probably in Group 5 Prototype class. All they did was change the hood with newer Martini paint scheme, and it has a different (larger for the long runs) fuel tank looking at the holes in the hood. You can actually see the earlier Martini hood stripes at the top of the hood cowl, which had been used on the earlier Martini #3 car shown in the wind tunnel testing on pages 94, 95. (In this same Porsche Sport issue, which was a contemporary publication of the time, the #8 Martini car was identified as the winner, and it had the Mary Stewart wing.)

In Starkey's R to RSR, this car (my conclusion) is identified as 911 360 020 R2, which was "built" in 10/72, but really that was probably the date it was painted a different color and given the new Carrera VIN to be used by the factory as a practice car. I think I read where a new 3.0 race engine was installed in this "practice car" after 2 other RSR's were wrecked in practice at the Targa...and it finished 3rd.

In the Carrera RS book, VIN 020 does not show a conversion number and has the factory owned Country Code of 100, which to me says that it was probably the 72 S in question. On pages 53 and 54 the Red 72 is shown as a Prototype that had the metal "ducktail" look and raced in Austria with a 2.8 in July 72 with those funky looking flares.

On page 94 of the Carrera RS book (wind tunnel testing), the authors incorrectly identify this car as the winner of the Targa, and it is easy to see this is the same 72 (flares and silver trimmed lenses, mud flap on rear flares (as seen on p. 53 etc) here numbered 3, which is the car mentioned above.

In Boshen/Barth's THE PORSCHE BOOK, page 441, the #3 Martini car with the caption: "Development started with this factory-owned RSR in 1973" is clearly the 72S shown in the Carrera RS book based on the oil door, flares and silver trimmed turn signals.

Gib Bosworth
R Gruppe #18
Early S Reg #434

[letsrollbabe]

Another interesting fact from the Porsche Sport 73 publication pictures is that neither car, #8 or #107, had red bumpers...they were silver. The Mary Stewart collar looked like it had the structural pieces for the side additions, but they weren't covered in fiber glass. These would seem to be reliable pictures since you can see they are taken at the Targa with spectators around, not staged pics for advertising. Sometimes photos are better records than memories.

Does anybody out there have a copy of Porsche Sport 73 to verify?

Gib Bosworth
R Gruppe #18
Early S Reg. #434