Weakening Dollar

[jaudette3]

The dollar has fallen to an all-time low against the Euro which means Europeans can buy cars from the U.S. at roughly a 30% discount. I recently learned about a guy on the West Coast of the U.S. with a partner in Europe who is buying cars for export. He is paying top dollar and says he can make 15% or so profit after shipping expenses.

If the dollar keeps falling (which seems likely given the way our government spends here in the U.S.) it may have a substantial impact on prices of early 911's. Couple of questions, especially to our friends in Europe:

(1) What is the level of interest in early 911's in Europe?

(2) You would intuitively think that *very* few rust-free Targas remain - is that true? Jim Schrager and other market experts have long predicted that Tragas would be more collectible than Coupes, but that hasn't happened yet, at least in the U.S.

(3) A strong current fashion here in the U.S. is to hot rod early 911's. Generally speaking, do Europeans like that, or do they prefer original cars?

Just curious. I'm thinking we may see a steadily increasing stream of cars flowing from the U.S West Coast to Europe.

Cheers,
John Audette

[911T1971]

I'm not a specialist in market reports - so maybe members like my friend milou will back up my post...
In my opinion, there is a strong interest in early911s as well..and prices (especially S-models) are reflecting the trend.
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UK was probably leading the trend back in early90ies..and while visiting Essen Techno Classica Motorshow in Germany since 2001, i could see prices going up every year in Germany as well. Same for Switzerland, France as well.
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Looks to me that people tend to buy either cars in perfect condition or cars to be restored.
There are a few vendors who import US-Cars ( I visited one in Switzerland, two in Germany and i have checked trough a friend one in the Netherlands).. seems they are doing good business, but my feeling is that these are often no high-end/perfect condition cars...high-end and rare competition models are sold trough established and well known dealers in Europe.
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I dont see a big gap in prices between Targas and Coupe, depends more on the model...but i could be wrong. Maybe its a different typ of ownership. (track racing or not, style issue, etc.)
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The recent interest and media coverage of classic meetings (Le Mans Classic, Goodwood, Mille Miglia, Villa d'Este, Tour de France, Solitude-Stuttgart, Nuerburgring..etc.), the participation of factory sponsored "classic" stands at meetings and fairs (BMW, Porsche, Mercedes etc..) and finally increasing severe penaltys for passing speed limits in large parts of Europe makes people (and owners of modern 911 ?) thinking of switching over to the classic pre74 cars.
And maybe the recent succes of Porsche as a brand helps to "make" a statement to drive an early911 also...even for people who have never considered to buy a classic car before.
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As for hot-rod 911s...good cars tend to be more and more in original condition to hold up their increasing value, but some end up as good, very good or excellent R,S/T,RS,RSR replicas as values of those rare cars skyrocked in recents years..and these cars become eligible to participate for above mentioned classic meetings.
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As for media, we all buy and read Excellence magazine, Total911, C&SC, B.Johnson's and P.Morgan's and other standard literature...

[tfiv]

My brother and I put ourselves through school sending old sports cars (mostly British) to Europe in the late eighties. In '89 if you put a TR-3 project in the paper, half the respondents would have an accent. We used to sell most cars based upon faxed photographs and descriptions! Nearly all of the cars were projects, that seemed to be what they wanted.

Back then it seemed to be supply and demand driving the market. All of the 50s and 60s cars had rusted away in Europe, but they were literally all over the place on the West coast. I do feel bad about a few of the Jaguars that passed through our hands. 911s by the way, were not really a hot commodity back then, too new at the time maybe.

With the weak dollar, the internet and specifically Ebay, I'm surprised more cars aren't headed that direction. I won't have anything to do with it though!

[pu911rsr]

Almost all of there early 911's I have sold on ebay have gone overseas. Most early 911's were driven hard and hung up wet in Europe. Shipping to Europe is not that much more than a coast to to coast shipment here so the market will remain strong as long as folks in Europe want nice rust free cars. Depending on the country it can be very difficult to import modified cars. I'm sure our European breathern can chime in here.
Phil

[911T1971]

Almost all of there early 911's I have sold on ebay have gone overseas. Most early 911's were driven hard and hung up wet in Europe. Shipping to Europe is not that much more than a coast to to coast shipment here so the market will remain strong as long as folks in Europe want nice rust free cars. Depending on the country it can be very difficult to import modified cars. I'm sure our European breathern can chime in here.
Phil

Yes, modified cars are harder to receive street legal papers, as well as some US-equiped cars who have been never sold/homogulated with their technical specification in an european country, too.

Not all have been in the wet, for example, Switzerland was a small but loyal market. (One of the first Porsche client was Zurich based Mr. von Senger in the early 50ies, owners kept them tidy and had the money to do it, still today...)
One of my friends told me German dealers buy often swiss cars - I recently saw an german ad "swiss delivered Porsche" which was meant as a quality label.

Early euro911's can be found here, just the really good ones are harder to find and will command their price..and maybe current owners will stick to them too.
With increasing interest there is probably more demand so buyers are looking (again) oversees.

[Milou]

Yes, it's all true and I think the UK gets the highest prices for 911 as right hand drives are very rare and in high demand.
The exchange rate is particularly good for parts and accessories I think, as shipping has become inexpensive. Importing cars remain a niche market as it can get pretty complicated in certain countries.

The interest for pre 73 911 has certainly increased over the last few years, lots of magazines and often the most popular cars in historic rallies. Prices are now fairly stable varying between euros 20.OOO and 45.000 euros depending on models and condition (add 30 percent to get dollars). Several magazines are available and clubs (don't forget to buy Octane next month!).

The factory is finally beginning to take classic cars seriously, but most of us work with independent specialists and we of course regret the lack or very limited information the factory provides us with. National importers are pretty good providing info. (Amag in Switzerland has been great!).

"S" models are in high demand and fetch the highest prices, but people are beginning to realize that T,L, and E are better daily drivers.

Fairs and autojumbles were most held in the UK and an "english" thing but now with the Essen Techno Classica in Germany, it's become a big part of the Porsche experience.

[jaudette3]

[QUOTE=sithot]As far as the Dollar/Euro discount, that's old news and has been going on for a good while now./QUOTE]

I'm talking about the trend. The dollar traded around a 20% discount for a long spell, now it's a 30% discount and it's trending pretty strongly. I'm not an economist (thank goodness), but there's no reason to believe the trend won't continue. Imagine if the Euro starts trading even with the Pound and the Europeans have a 50% discount?

I agree that most of the truly exceptional cars (such as my '73 911S that I recently sold to a fellow enthusiast) never see the light of day right now. But the times they are a-changin'.

Not that I intend to sell anymore cars -- I'm still in recovery from the sale of the last one.

Cheers,
John

[pmjt]

As a 'uropean' I've been watching the $ change very much in my favour - I off loaded some surplus parts earlier in the year and I'm actively in the market for a 914/6 - now is the time for me to be buying

All things come back around and mid next year we'll see it settle down - last time this happened I bought three 356 Speedsters and brought them back to the UK.

UK car prices have, for some reason, always been a premium over the rest of the World - and we pay a HUGE premium on new cars.

It's just part of the routine of life - today we win (a little), next year we'll get screwed - la plus ca change, le plus c'est le meme chose!

Philip

[pgxif]

Philip, I actually think Australia pips the UK in terms of the highest prices.

Recent changes in the law have helped (we now can drive LHD cars here, as long as they are over 30 years old, and only now don't have to have a banner across the back window saying "warning Left Hand Drive".) So we are seeing a few more (and I just brought one in recently from LA).

Currency swings both ways of course.
But IMO dry climates will be more attractive for these cars .. it is just very hard to live with de-misters, fog and salty roads for 6 months ...

[platas]

I think the good cars will saty in the us, but also swissterland will end up buying the very good cars, i for example have imported 20 or so units this year, doing well, but my market is for original or what they think here its an original, 911, no hot rods, its getting very difficult to pass tuv and get homologation papers here too, but in my opinion and i am speaking on the spain market,most of the cars sold here are in the 18 to 25 k range,thoough i just sold a very good unit for 34 a T, but the S will bring a good 45, just sold a eu S wich here in spain is considered a much better investement. Market though is dictated by the US i think and the good units will bring big dollars , but still i think the trend will continue at least here in spain to be on the rise, porsches are in fashion now, and remenber from all europe its the country with the least porsche population , but growing every year. The intrest and the classik rallys have done it, out of ten places on grid, 6 are porsches and they all finish, they love that, then also the status, so if i can save 50 % in the future i will be happy. Need a 72 S