FS: '74 porsche 911RS 3.0

[Jens]

Allen, these are just observations and questions that a reasonable person would make given the evidence and the bold, contradicted, and apparently uninformed story. The serial numbers are clearly dubious. I'm note so sure that there are identical engine numbers for various engine series. I'm guessing that engine serial numbers are unique, except sometimes when the factory replaced customer engine cases that were irreparably damaged. A close, third party, expert, professional inspection is critical in such a long distance purchase.

Just an opinion (everyone has one).

over and out

[ennisk1]

This car is clearly has some major questions regarding what it is. I think that threads like this are great tools for all of us to learn. Good luck to the new owner, as I will make the assumption that they know something more about the car then we do....or they are bigger risk takers.

I was especially interested in this thread since I firmly believe that these mid-year Carreras (especially Euro models) are going to take off in value over the next year. In fact, I think that all mid year 911's will be lifted, especially clean no story cars, as people get priced out of the early cars.

Of course, I may have no idea what I'm talking about!

[911scfanatic]

Allen, that engine serial number IS in Starkey's book and associated with a particular RS that supposedly has THAT engine. This doesn't raise any red flags for you?

[HughH]

Bill
I agree
What it appears to be is:

• a genuine 1973 RS engine, but not the one it purports to be because all evidence suggests that that engine is in another car that was sold relatively recently as a numbers matching car in the UK by a reputable and knowledgeable dealer
• a shell of dubious heritage due to the very suspicious non factory alteration of the chassis number but certainly one that appears to be G series or later due to the magenta paint (and paint label - 009) which only became available with G series cars

I suppose the issues with the chassis stampings could indicate a "cut and shut" with a new front end being grafted onto a real 74 Carrera and a crude attempt to "put the right chassis number back on".

A serious buyer should have at least asked for the production number from the dash stamping so Porsche could cross reference it against the purported chassis number. If it matched it would be a 1974 "Euro" Carrera, albeit with the wrong engine but right engine type.

Another easy thing to check would have been the gearbox type. If it was a 915/08 it would be a RS one (either 1973 2.7RS to match the apparent engine in the car and possibly suggesting a full drive train swap or less likely a 1974 3.0RS suggesting a complete "bitzer") or if it was a 915/16 it would suggest a 74 Carrera.

While someone may have picked up a good car for restoration they are much braver than me.
From all I have seen it is likely to be a bag of trouble with the worst case being a stolen and altered car which is likely to come back and bite someone in the future

[Allen Henderson]

Allen, that engine serial number IS in Starkey's book and associated with a particular RS that supposedly has THAT engine. This doesn't raise any red flags for you?

Yes it would. I thought the engine number was not in the RS Book, the definitive book. To me the engine number does not look altered. The chassis number looks weird. Do I undersand, there is no embossed tag on in the front, that it is missing? THanks.

-Allen-

[Carl Bauer]

Hugh,

I asked the seller (who was very forthcoming with pictures but seemed pretty clueless) if he could photograph the transmission type and serial numbers. He said he couldn't find them even after I told him where to look. It's possible that they were removed. Same situation with the aluminum VIN tag.

I don't believe this car has a new front clip because you can see the Magenta paint around the over stamped VIN in the trunk. I guess they could have lucked onto another Magenta donor car or under sprayed Magenta before over spraying black but either of those situations are unlikely. He said there's Magenta showing the engine bay and inside the rear fenders so the whole car was Magenta at some point.

I did discuss the location and meaning of the knee pad stamp and the grease pencil number under the dash. How quickly will Porsche confirm or deny that the VIN matches the knee pad stamp? It could take weeks. I bet the numbers don’t match but this car was probably one of less than 5 or 10 Magenta ’74 – ’75 Carreras and I bet you could figure out what number it should have.

Relisted and ended w/ BIN for 20k on 5/21/07

[EARLY911ZOO]

ebay # 300113632454
This morning at 9:22 it came back up with BIN $20K sold in 1 min 49sec( now that was fast!)

I dont know if any of you had this happened to them before but it has happened to me maybe 3 or 4 times now where as you are watching an auction and the screen skipstomyloomydarling for a nanosec and it suddenly says bidding has ended as someone clicked the BIN button.
So looks like instead of going to the catacombs of Paris to be resurrected as??
....the oddity is staying here.

[EARLY911ZOO]

Is it certain that the engine number in this car is also identical as one in a real RS somewhere?

[HughH]

It is correct that the engine number is shown as being in RS 1109 at the time of manufacture. (source RS book)

It is also true that Mark Waring, a reputable and knowledgeable dealer in these cars, has this on his site http://www.wwc-porsche.com/ :


"Car Details
Year: 1973
Description: 911 2.7 RST
Drive: LHD
Colour: White/Red
Interior: Black/Recaros
Mileage: 93,000 Klms
Comments: Chassis Number 1109 with matching engine. Came 4th in a French concours event in 1999 and now imported into the UK. Genuine mileage this car was maintained by the well respected French Porsche specialist, Louis Mezmarie. Recent new clutch and ivory headlining this car drives like a new car. Fully waxed and now used as a daily driver. It is difficult to find a better one."

My records show it appeared on his site for sale in 2002.

Now unless Mark has made an error in the listing on his site it would appear that that particular engine was in the correct RS in 2002 and presumably still is.

[Porsche]

ebay # 300113632454
This morning at 9:22 it came back up with BIN $20K sold in 1 min 49sec( now that was fast!)

I dont know if any of you had this happened to them before but it has happened to me maybe 3 or 4 times now where as you are watching an auction and the screen skipstomyloomydarling for a nanosec and it suddenly says bidding has ended as someone clicked the BIN button.
So looks like instead of going to the catacombs of Paris to be resurrected as??
....the oddity is staying here.

Maybe the seller and buyer renegotiated a new price but wanted to do the transaction through eBay for record and security reasons and therefore the seller relisted the car with a BIN of the agreed price, sent the buyer the link, and the buyer clicked it the moment it was relisted.