Pictures of Marathon de la Route 1967 and 1968 wanted

[bxd]

Yes. It is VIN 119300009, a very early LWB S

That's fantastic! Would you perhaps also know the VIN of its sister car, car #30?

[bxd]

It is VIN 119300009, a very early LWB S

I'm really intrigued by this. It always seems that '69 MY 911 competition cars (read post-R/TR, pre-ST Sports Purposes cars) exist in a somewhat hazy zone in Porsche racing history. -Either there simply weren't that many LWB cars entered (or accepted) into the more high-profile race events of that year (due to the factory's shift in focus towards other race programs, plus obvious 911 chassis and engine changes that may not have been warmly embraced by the FIA or other sanctioning bodies), or they weren't as highly lauded as the venerable R's and T/R's of the previous two years, and as such weren't recorded as much in photos, video, lit, etc.. There are plenty of records of SWB cars entered in 1969 race events, but very few LWB cars entered in 1968 events... in fact, this is one of the first, if not THE first time I've ever heard of such a thing. -I'll freely admit that I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you, but having read nearly all of the threads, on this forum and others, regarding 1968 and 1969 cars, and having read a number of books on the races of those two years, this seems quite rare. Am I totally off-base here?

In addition to what has already been posted in this thread, does anyone have more info on, or photos of cars #28 and #30?; e.g. engine specs, other race history, current location/status, chassis number for car #30, etc.? For example, if #28 has a chassis number of 119300009, then car #30 was probably pulled off the line at roughly the same time and most likely has a similar number, like 119300010 or 11 or 12 or perhaps even 06, 07 or 08. Were they both Werks cars? Were they part of the small batch of "lightweight" cars like the one pictured below?







Lots of questions...

[HughH]

Jordan
here is a photo of car #30 S H 7686.
I dont know the chassis number but for most other cars i have run across that have sequential or almost sequential registration numbers and are "sister cars" the chassis numbers are very close - may be 10 or so numbers apart but not much more. so i suspect that these two are as well


here is another of car 28 - not sure if has been posted here or not

[Cornpanzer]

#30 was chassis #0003, #29 was 0008 and #28 was 0009. All three cars were run at the Nurburgring as Werks "GTS" cars. (Yes, that is what the factory called them) Thanks to Mr. Reilly for sharing the documentation with me.

The three Nurburgring cars originally had aluminum bumpers F/R, Aluminum Hood and deck, aluminum doors and even aluminum front fenders! Truly unsung heros in the Porsche racing history.

0007 is a street car for a Porsche family member, but was also Orange.

[Cornpanzer]

I'm really intrigued by this. It always seems that '69 MY 911 competition cars (read post-R/TR, pre-ST Sports Purposes cars) exist in a somewhat hazy zone in Porsche racing history. -Either there simply weren't that many LWB cars entered (or accepted) into the more high-profile race events of that year (due to the factory's shift in focus towards other race programs, plus obvious 911 chassis and engine changes that may not have been warmly embraced by the FIA or other sanctioning bodies), or they weren't as highly lauded as the venerable R's and T/R's of the previous two years, and as such weren't recorded as much in photos, video, lit, etc.. There are plenty of records of SWB cars entered in 1969 race events, but very few LWB cars entered in 1968 events... in fact, this is one of first, if not THE first time I've ever heard of such a thing. -I'll freely admit that I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you, but having read nearly all of the threads, on this forum and others, regarding 1968 and 1969 cars, and having read a number of books on the races of those two years, this seems quite rare. Am I totally off-base here?

In addition to what has already been posted in this thread, does anyone have more info on, or photos of cars #28 and #30?; e.g. engine specs, other race history, current location/status, chassis number for car #30, etc.? For example, if #28 has a chassis number of 119300009, then car #30 was probably pulled off the line at roughly the same time and most likely has a similar number, like 119300010 or 11 or 12 or perhaps even 06, 07 or 08. Were they both Werks cars? Were they part of the small batch of "lightweight" cars like the one pictured below?







Lots of questions...

Jordan, I believe the photos that you have posted were actually of 1970 2.2 litre standard S models. It seems that the early pre-production cars retained the 69 style door handles.

[911T1971]

Jordan, I believe the photos that you have posted were actually of 1970 2.2 litre standard S models. It seems that the early pre-production cars retained the 69 style door handles.

+1

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...light=predated

[beh911]

#30 was chassis #0003, #29 was 0008 and #28 was 0009. All three cars were run at the Nurburgring as Werks "GTS" cars. (Yes, that is what the factory called them) Thanks to Mr. Reilly for sharing the documentation with me.

The three Nurburgring cars originally had aluminum bumpers F/R, Aluminum Hood and deck, aluminum doors and even aluminum front fenders! Truly unsung heros in the Porsche racing history.

0007 is a street car for a Porsche family member, but was also Orange.

That is a great post. Sounds like the basis for a nice magazine article...

[beh911]

I'm really intrigued by this. It always seems that '69 MY 911 competition cars (read post-R/TR, pre-ST Sports Purposes cars) exist in a somewhat hazy zone in Porsche racing history. -Either there simply weren't that many LWB cars entered (or accepted) into the more high-profile race events of that year (due to the factory's shift in focus towards other race programs, plus obvious 911 chassis and engine changes that may not have been warmly embraced by the FIA or other sanctioning bodies), or they weren't as highly lauded as the venerable R's and T/R's of the previous two years, and as such weren't recorded as much in photos, video, lit, etc.. There are plenty of records of SWB cars entered in 1969 race events, but very few LWB cars entered in 1968 events... in fact, this is one of first, if not THE first time I've ever heard of such a thing. -I'll freely admit that I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you, but having read nearly all of the threads, on this forum and others, regarding 1968 and 1969 cars, and having read a number of books on the races of those two years, this seems quite rare. Am I totally off-base here?

Jordan,

You summed it up nicely. 69 was a very curious year for Porsche competition and the 911. And I see you found the 1969 Competition cars thread and posted on that as well.

In 1969, the overarching theme was the Piech drive for outright victory at Le Mans with the 917 (ending with abject failure and tragedy). The 69 911 cars were sandwiched between the SWB T/R and R programs on one end and the ST efforts of 70+ on the other. It has been said that the 917 program nearly bankrupted the company, on top of overhead increase in the form of factory facilities expansion that year, and the well known engineering changes to get the LWB cars into production... so I imagine there wasn't a huge appetite for investment in the base cars at that point in time.

Hence the limited factory efforts with 911s, namely the big rallies and the 84 Hours of the 'Ring in this thread.

It is very unusual to find MY69 cars in period competition both from a factory and privateer standpoint.

[uai]

[bxd]

This is all fantastic information, both about the '67 and '68 Route. I still do have a few questions regarding the cars in '68...

#30 was chassis #0003, #29 was 0008 and #28 was 0009. All three cars were run at the Nurburgring as Werks "GTS" cars.

I'm not trying to create a mystery where there is none, I'm just hoping to get clear on this myself: there are books and online documents that state that the team of "Porsche AG" entered three 911E cars in the '68 Route, and that one of those cars won outright (#28), and one placed second overall (#30). However, if the serial numbers for the three Werks cars are/were actually 119300003, 119300008, 119300009 respectively, then there is a discrepancy. That would mean they are definitely not SWB cars, and are not LWB '69 911E's as thought, but actually some of the very first LWB '69 911S's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that the widely accepted '68 MdlR entry information for the Porsche Werks cars is incorrect, no? -As we've noted, that was a tumultuous time at the factory, and although it seems a bit strange, there are any number of reasons that the cars could have been switched at the last minute....perhaps someone has access to the original paperwork for the race that they could share? Maybe the paperwork is wrong? I am very interested to find out more.

Also,

I believe the photos that you have posted were actually of 1970 2.2 litre standard S models.

You may well be right, I have no way of knowing anything about that particular car... other than what I've read here on the forum. I do know however, that even here in the Registry there are some who claim that car is a '69 Lightweight, and some who claim it's an early '70 S or ST prototype. -All I know is that it looks like a '69 to me; not just the door handles, but also the rear engine grill, maybe more. -Maybe someone knows the actual chassis number for that car and could shed light on that particular mystery?? -Nonetheless, all I was really asking is whether or not anyone knew if the (3) '68 Marathon cars were factory "lightweight" chassis or not... I guess since they all had 911R bonnet hinges, aluminum bonnets, bumpers and front wings, and plexi side and rear windows, it's safe to assume they were quite special and probably had other chassis mods that you can't see, such as being pulled from the mysterious "lightweight" batch of chassis. That info may or may not be recorded somewhere in factory records, I dunno. I'd just like to know a lot more about these cars because it seems that they, along with S-R2263 and S-R2264 (the '69 Monte cars) are the missing links between the T/R and the S/T series of Werks cars.

I also have a question regarding the Lightweight chassis built in '69, but, so we don't hijack this thread, opening that particular box of snakes is best to done on the '69 Competition thread found here:

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...tion-911/page6