1972 Tour de corsa RSR photos and info

[John Starkey]

More and more interesting! Although this is an aside, I thought that I should point out the mysteries and fates that befell the factory entered RSRs of 1972/3:

911 360 0001: Was S/T 911 230 0769. Re-numbered. Still in existence with unbroken line of ownership.

911 360 0002: Was S/T 911 230 0841. Re-numbered. Almost cetainly the "Strahle" Rs/RSR at July 1972 Osterreichring 1000Kms. APPARENTLY used as a practice car for the 1978 Safari Rally. APPARENTLY in the ownership today of "An English enthusiast?"

911 360 0019: R1: Built 10/1972. November: Paul Ricard tests. Not heard of since. What happened to it?

911 360 0020: R2: Built 10/1972.
1973: Last raced at Le Mans with Peter Gregg/Chasseuil, #48. Not heard of since. The car in the Porsche museum?

911 360 0307 R3: Built 12/72.
Penke car at Daytona 4 Hours 1973. DNF.
Sold to Al Holbert. Raced in 1973 season, wrecked by Milt Minter at Edmonton end of season, re-chassised with a 911T bodyshell, wrecked again, re-chassised with a 1975 Comp chassis. Being restored by Gunnar Racing.

911 360 0328 R4: Built 1/1973.
Gregg Haywood winner of 1973 Daytona 24 Hours. Sent back to factory. "Verschrotten" (Broken up/dismantled for inspection). Never heard of/seen since.

911 360 0576 R5: Built 2/1973.
Did 1973 season, for 1974, converted to RSR Turbo Carrera, 2002-2004: Gunnar Racing converted the car back to its original RSR configuration. The recovered turbo running gear was built into a spare bodyshell to recreate that configuration.

911 360 0588 R6: Built 2/1973.
1973: World Championship season, won Targa Florio. For many years, with Peter Kitchak.

911 360 0686 R7: Built 2/1973.
1973: Worl Championship season.
1974: Sold to Hector Rebaque. Le Mans, Osterreich 1000Kms. Severely damaged in trailer. Under restoration.

911 360 0974 R8: Built 5/1973.
1973: Monza 1000Kms then Targa Florio: Damaged, not been heard of or seen since.

Still some mysteries to resolve! They led a hard life.

John Starkey

[John Starkey]

Did, and perhp still does exist....

But was built in February, 1973 as a normal street S. (Factory confirmation). So there was a typo and 911 230 0769 fits the current scenario as a LEO ZA car.

Incidentally, Leonberg, (LEO), is a district of Weissach, hence the registration number/Tag. There was a re-arrangement of districts in the mid 1970s and the old LEO tg disappeared.

[HughH]

John

it is great to have your expert input into this discussion / exploration of the history of the early werks cars.

I am puzzled at one thing that you may be able to shed some light on.

in your post above you state that
"911 360 0019: R1: Built 10/1972. November: Paul Ricard tests. Not heard of since. What happened to it?"

The RS book claims that it was R2, still in LEO-ZA form, that did the tests at paul ricard in early december 1972 and in the process was modified from a rally car to track car with 11 inch rear wheels, the raised spindles on the front suspension to give more suspension travel, etc.

Your book makes no mention of R2 being there for those tests.

The pics available show a LEO-ZA car at Paul Ricard, but there are other factory pictures (in the RS book amongst other places) that appear to be at a racetrack, that I assume is Paul Ricard (from seeing a caption against it in another publication a long time ago), showing a red 72 car looking like a RSR and a white with red RS (or what looks like a stock RS.)

Is there some confusion between R1 and R2 here? Or were they both there? (maybe R1 as a standard looking car (it was supposed to be built as white with red) and R2 in LEO-ZA form?)

Or maybe is there confusion between R2 and 002 in the material used for the RS book? The Red car at the circuit is possibly the Strahle car (002?) especially if the second LEO -ZA car was the Zazada car

Finally Is there a possibility that the LEO - ZA car at paul ricard was really R1??

if so was R1 also a LEO-ZA car at the Tour de Course .........or might the factory have just swapped plates to get the cars through customs (given they obviously had customs clearance to get the LEO cars to France for the TDC)


The lack of any sort of history for R1 fascinates me - it is almost like it did not exist....... or was a composite of different cars at different times to suit "administrative purposes"

[HughH]

Hugh are these the photos of R1 and R2 at the track you are thinking of

yes that is the photo I was thinking of...............or at least ALMOST that photo. I will put mine up. It is from a slightly different angle

BUT while I thought that the Red car was a prototype RSR, possibly the "Strahle" car (but probably not an "R" car) I was not sure of the identity of the white car.

From Starkey's caption he has identifies the red car as the Zasada car 001

The white car is the same "original build" color of R1 and R2 but to me looks to me more like a standard RS than an RSR. (single outlet exhaust and no obvious wide rear flares)

Given that a few of the early build cars were white with red I was never sure what it was, although the rear bumpers, no deco strip etc suggest a lightweight - maybe M471. (see rear bumpers in second pic.)

It could not be 017 which was also white and red, as 017 was a M472 and this car looks like a lightweight. Also a letter from the factory in 1993 regarding 017 mentions lots of photos that it is in (by page number in the RS book) but does not mention the pages this photo is in.

Apart from 017 and R1 019 and R2 020, the next lowest white with red car is 037 built in November 1992 for French delivery,but again it is a M472, and then a number of other ones 53, 54 etc still November cars but again M472's for German delivery. The earliest M471 white and red car is 055 a car delivered to Austria and built in November. It is a possible candidate but why would they use a customer car?

I am surprised that Starkey has identified it as 002 - I thought that 002 was the red Strahle car and was therefore the car in the foreground?

Also the caption says that this is at the "factory testing grounds" - which I think means it is NOT Paul Ricard?

John Starkey are you out there? can you add anything to this??

[letsrollbabe]

I think the Starkey picture caption must be before his recent comments on the link in this thread, because I think he has concluded, as many of us have, that the red car is 002 and is the Strahle car, and #107 at the TF. But I think there are still some conclusions in his latest comments about the Prototypes that need more investigation...let's keep digging!

http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/pages...ticles_42.html


Gib Bosworth

[John Starkey]

Hi Hugh, Varunan, and all.

Being as it's a holiday, I took some time to look back on all this stuff on early RSRs. Looking at that photos ofthe red and white car together, I'm now fairly certain the red car is 911 360 0002, (COULD still be 0001), though what the white RS 2.7 is, I don't know.

Just by chance, I flicked through my book "From R to GT3R-The Racing Porsches 911 and 930." On page 58 is a photo of an early RSR, pinted in Martini colors, race number 3 on a snowy racetrack, meaning that it was taken during the winter of 1972/3. To my eyes, all its details match the red car, (0002), particularly the wheel rch shpes, which seem to have been peculiar to 0001 and 0002. Also, the rear oil door is there, wipers parked to the left, RS style outside mirror, '72 style horn grills, opening rear side windows, same opening for the fuel tank, same rollbar. I also have some thougts on the Targa Florio cars but have put them in the appropriate thread.

John Starkey

[John Starkey]

Hugh, Varunan et al.

The car that Gerard Larrousse drove for Louis Meznarie for most of 1971 and 1972 was 911 030 0949, a "special" 1970 S/T.

We now know that the car that Peter Gregg drove at Le Mans 1973 with Chasseuil, was a Sonauto entered car, not a Works-run car. Sonauto took delivery of four RSRs in 1973, two white and two yellow. Only one was built in time to have done Le Mans and that was 911 360 0643, delivered to Erlen/Robert Buchet for Claude Ballot-Lena to race. It is almost certain that Ballot-Lena gave up his Le Mans seat for Gregg, as Ballot Lena drove the Charles Pozzi entered Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona that finished 6thOA and won the GTS class.

The two white cars, which COULD have fitted the bill were 1033, which was sold to the Almeras Brothers to race and 1088, delivered to Geeraerts to race. I suppose it is possible one of the two white cars could have been resparyed yellow but why bother?

Regarding 911 360 0019: I do have a note, from long ago, tht it was entered in the 1973 Targa Florio for Steckkong/Pucci, as #108 but was "wrecked in a practice accident"(!) Does this account for this car's disappearance? Still lots to discover!

John Starkey

[John Starkey]

Hugh,

Replying to your question(s) on R1 (911 360 0019). I now think that it was R2, (911 360 0020), that did the Paul Ricard tests, after being at the Tour de Corse.

A further theory: Perhaps R1/0019 was never built? If you look in the chassis register for RS 2.7s, there is precious little information on it, likewise 0020. Furthermore, why should the factory bother to make two prototype RS/RSRs, R1 and R2, when they already had Zasada's old crashed rally car, 911 230 0769, to make into 911 360 0001, and homologate as the Group 4 RSR? We know that this happened.

There is mention of R1 being this car in Konradsheim's RS book, but there, it says that "R1" was later on used on the Panzer Track at Weissach and then as a practice car for the 1978 Safari Rally and, today, it reportedly belongs to "An English enthusiast". Really? We know that 0001 (R1?) was sold to Stanley Palmer in England in 1974.


Of course, they also had 911 360 0002 and....Where is 0002 now? No record of it being written off, that I can find. Apparently, it was "Number 107 in the Targa Florio" again, info from the RS book by Konradsheim.
If so, could this not be the "chassis 0020" in the Porsche Museum now? Anyone care to get the production number next time you're at the museum?

Your thoughts would be appreciated!

[letsrollbabe]

John:

At one point in the TF thread I had concluded that the museum car was 002 (#107), but all factory documentation seems to show it to be 020 (#9). Both were built from 72 STs, both had been used quite a bit for development work by the factory.

Someone needs to open the hood and quickly look at the stamped VIN before the attendent says "please don't touch", then we will know for sure.

But it is really a mystery what happened to 002, #107. One theory I had earlier was that it was further modified into a 74 RSR, but no info seems to exist. It would be a pretty valuable car if someone could uncover it.

Gib Bosworth

[letsrollbabe]

The production number is beneath a plate and knee guard on the factory Museum car, so I doubt that a visitor could quickly remove them to take a look at that number. I think it will be up to someone at the factory to verify it.

Gib