Disappearing Threads, Flippers, Dealers and Other Rants

[tfmcmahon]

You have totally missed the mark.Your condecending remarks have avoided the whole point of this thread and the ones on Pelican.You are begging the question.You state your position and ask us to assume that all your deals are as they should be.Your hyperbole and extraneous stories have nothing to do with the issue.Here is your quote,"I do this as a hobby because I love these cars. every car I buy, I buy to keep, and when I get it I have it checked out at my mechanic and get the car in as good condition as possible, so I can enjoy it".That ,Mister, does not fit the scenario.The car didn`t even run! The issue at hand is the story of a post made by a new owner that bought a car from you that was advertised as a "no Rust Arizona car".According to the story,it was not.You posted pictures of the car and asked the board to be your judge and jury on a deal gone south.You know as well as most of us,you can`t see rust on this screen if it`s not desired to.That was presumptuous at best.Then you deleted the thread! Cut to the chase! Address the issue at hand.What the hell is a restocking fee if you are JUST a collector and why all the legal disclamers if everything is as it should be. Take your best shot,but try not to be pompous.Arrogance is not appreciated. TFM

[Macroni]

made a new friend ....his name is Yale..

[ErVikingo]

I say, if you are a dealer, pay a fee for advertising and identify yourself accordingly. We pay a fee to participate (share and learn about our cars) they are here for business so a small fee should be OK.

I like the idea of closing the for sale threads so only the starter can post and have a separate forum for feedback.

[silverc4s]

Years back I was familiar with the "Ferrari Market Letter" run by a gentleman from Atlanta, I believe.
Ads posted in his publication were all in a required format, no exceptions. This was a very useful device to understand all cars for sale AND to seperate all the BS from the Buttermilk, if you get my meaning. I will look up the format this weekend at home, but it went something like this:

car / model / year of mfg / ser number / body style / paint color / interior color / ask price / and so on thru about 6 additional items / comments - 50 words maximum.

It was very easy to sort through a large listing of cars and contrast & compare, as well a validate each offering - with a minimum of hyperbole...

[reed]

I understand that many people on this board do not really understand what a car nut and collector is, basically someone with a deep love for the marque and the means to enjoy it.

Unfortunately for you, what distinguishes a dealer from the rest of us isn't how much you love the marque or how much money you have in the bank. It's how many cars you sell over a given period and whether those cars are titled in your own name. Simple, really.

We should apply these same standards on this Board. As far as policing such a policy, I think most of us have the ability to spot the abusers. Set the policy and the rest should take care of itself. And if it turns out that a moderator is needed in the for-sale forums, I'm sure there would be volunteers.

My suggestions:

1.Set up two for-sale forums, one for private owners who are selling a car titled in their own name with a maximum of two listings per year and another commercial forum for all the rest, including dealers, brokers and Indian Chiefs.

2. All postings on the private owner forum would continue to be free, all others would pay some type of fee, either per listing or yearly.

3. Listings on the for-sale forums could not be edited or deleted by the user. Additional posts could be added to the listing indicating changes to price, pending sale, etc. but not deleted.

4. All postings on the commercial forum should include the seller's name, telephone number, e-mail address and business name as well as asking price for the car.

I'm sure these basic rules could be refined but how is that for a framework?

[ErVikingo]

I like the idea Reed but where would someone like me fall?

The cars I've listed I don't own nor am I a dealer (for the last 20 years I've bought but not sold a Porsche) nor profiting from it in any way. Just helping (trying to anyway) some friends who are not into the internet forum thing and also trying to bring to the attention of my fellow enthusiasts cars that are for sale by their owners.

I'd assume a post like this would fall in the proposed "non dealer" forum?

[a911s]

Thanks, Tom, for explaining your position.

I also like Reed's idea.

[72targa]

Here are the "dealer" details for California:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vehindustry/ol/dealer.htm

What is a Vehicle Dealer?

While there are certain exceptions (defined in CVC Section 286) , in general, a "vehicle dealer" is typically a person who, on a full or part-time basis, buys, sells, trades, or arranges the purchase, sale or trade of vehicles, expecting some compensation or benefit.

I would assume other states have similar laws.

[berettafan]

I like the idea Reed but where would someone like me fall?

The cars I've listed I don't own nor am I a dealer (for the last 20 years I've bought but not sold a Porsche) nor profiting from it in any way. Just helping (trying to anyway) some friends who are not into the internet forum thing and also trying to bring to the attention of my fellow enthusiasts cars that are for sale by their owners.

I'd assume a post like this would fall in the proposed "non dealer" forum?

i think i have the answer to this; the stipulations pass through to the person you are listing for. that is you must list his car in dealer forum if he is a dealer (per descriptions already discussed); if he is NOT a dealer and YOU are not getting a commission then it seems reasonable to keep you out of the paid dealer forum (aka shark infested waters of doom ).

IF you are listing for a friend who is NOT a dealer but you are being paid a commission then the listing should be in dealer forum. IMO.



Still, i think we'd be fine and dandy just having dealers id themselves and all sellers answer the two q's (title and commission).

dealers and commission takers pay 5% of gross sales price into a t-shirt fund and once the fund reaches enough $$ to buy each paid member an earlyS t-shirt they are mailed out

[X-Faktory]

I'm fairly new to the S registry, but have been active on Pelican and Rennlist and an enthusiast for years. I have to say that this all seems like a solution looking for a problem to me. I like the mix of people buying/selling/educating, including the enthusiasts, dealers, flippers. (somewhat interchangable, depending on what stage of their project, they're in) Buying low and selling high, I.E. making a profit, is good thing. How much profit someone makes on the deal is their business as long as they've fairly represented the product. If it's priced fairly and you buy it, you should be happy and not care how much profit the seller makes. If you think something is priced too high, don't buy it. The scammers and/or those that misrepresent their offerings and sell crap, rip people off etc. are typically weeded out fairly quickly.

al